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RRainey
1st February 2008, 05:26 PM
Its a tough tough route. But yata hay.
Everest double Mega itinerary

Fly to Lukla, trek to Benkar or Monjo
Namche Bazaar
Namche Bazaar, day trip to Khunde & Khumjung
Phortse (3810m) via Mong
Dingboche (4410 m)
Chhukhung (4730 m), climb Chhukhung Ri (5550m)
spare day 1- Hike to Nupse Face?
Lobuche (4910m) via Kongma La (5535m)
Gorak Shep (5160m), climb Kala Patar (5540m)
spare day 2 - EBC?
Zonglha
Dragnag via Cho La
Gokyo, climb Gokyo Ri
fifth lake and beyond
Rest or easy dayhike/short hike to nearer the pass?
Lundgen via Renjo La
Lundgen to Monjo/mostly downhill/how many hrs?
Monjo to Lukla
Lukla to Kathmandau first flight
Alt flight kathmandau morning pm Rob fly home

I am trying to get the itinerary to synch up with my desired plane departure hence the rather long day(how long?) Lungden to Monjo near the end.
we took triste's suggestion of Spare days and incorporated that to the schedule. Maybe some of those turn to easier options.

Oli
1st February 2008, 07:09 PM
So on the morning of Day 1 your depart from Kathmandu (1370m) and by the evening of Day 6 you are in Chhukhung (4730m). That's an average altitude gain of 560m per day - that is getting dangerous! It doesn't matter how fit you are or how many hours/miles you can walk per day, if you ascend too quickly without being suitably acclimatised then there is a serious risk of AMS.

Accepted wisdom recommends ~300m ascent per day, this can be exceeded with some caution, but it is extremely unwise to nearly double that rate on a continuous basis. Do not risk death for the sake of forcing your itinerary to make a return flight, either take a longer holiday or plan a more conservative trek.

triste
1st February 2008, 07:48 PM
The trail from Phortse to Pangboche is along a steep slope, one can view the Tengboche monastery constantly, which is magnificent.

trail
http://homepage.mac.com/cherish/images/trekking/big/b0819.jpg

Tengboche monastery
http://homepage.mac.com/cherish/images/trekking/big/b0815.jpg

Tengboche monastery, close up
http://homepage.mac.com/cherish/images/trekking/big/b0818.jpg


If you wish, you can side trip to Tengboche before you reach Pangboche (cross the bridge then going up), then continue to Dingboche in one day (7 + 3 hours).

Pangboche afar, the bridge connecting Pangboche and Tengboche
http://homepage.mac.com/cherish/images/trekking/big/b0828.jpg

RRainey
1st February 2008, 08:11 PM
Oli, that's a bit extreme. Somehow I survived the 8 trips to the summit of whitney which is 4421 meters going from SEA LEVEL to the top in just over 24 hours.

Mt Kenya pt Lenana 4985 meters from 1500 base(not acclimated to this altitude even) 4 days- No Problem

Mt Kilimanjaro 5895 meters 5 days (also went all the way out same day) I admit I had a headache for about 2 minutes.

Its genetic I adapt well to alltitude, no diamox etc. I am simply stating my experiences and am not recommending anyone else following my schedule.

Maybe my experience will change. 40 years of hiking I've had a few brief headaches. In the past when I was fond of a little more speed a 4 hr whitney summit caused a brief headache as well. Never any pulmonary problems,coughing,vomiting etc.

Everyone is different my wife has had altitude sickness below 10000 and is obviously not going on this trip.

Triste-

Lundgen to monjo how many hours? IS this descent reasonable?

triste
1st February 2008, 08:41 PM
Lundgen to monjo how many hours? IS this descent reasonable?

It would take about 12 hours, which is, well, not a good decision.

Most important, Lungden might be, very likely, a "no-lodge land" in winter, I would set the target to Marulung or Thami.

On the day of crossing Renjo La, consider to stop at Marulung (about 7 hours), or Thami (about 10-11 hours). Then you have higher probability to reach Lukla on the following day.

Anyway, it's planning, keep listening to other experience trekkers' advices, and make necessary adjustment :)

Oli
1st February 2008, 09:55 PM
Oli, that's a bit extreme.

Well perhaps I am being cautious - but not without good cause. I did not say that you will definitely die, but it is fair to say that fast ascent rates significantly increase the chances of AMS. Just be careful.

The route between Phortse and Pangboche is a great trail. There are no facilities en route, and IIRC not much water to be had. I'd heartily recommend it, especially during the busy season when there are hundreds of trekkers on the main valley trail, just remember to fill your water bottle and pack some snacks before you set off.

RRainey
1st February 2008, 11:14 PM
Great, So Maralung then to Lukla. I am passing the itinerary by the guide and if he thinks the lodge at lundgen won't be open I am sure he will let me know.

Are crampons typically required over the passes in mid to late December?.
If required can we pick those up in kathmandau?

triste
2nd February 2008, 12:07 AM
Are crampons typically required over the passes in mid to late December?

For Kongma La and Renjo La, no. For Cho La, it's better to seek advices from other experience trekkers.

BTW, consider to bring prayer flags to those Las and hoisting them. I always felt touched when I saw prayer flags faraway, and appreciated previous travelers who brought the flags there.

One more thing: try to be a lightweight trekker, if you equipment is heavy, your porters / guide would have difficulty to follow this itinerary.

RRainey
2nd February 2008, 05:21 AM
Yes, the weight is an issue. But we will need plenty of very warm stuff.
we are going to make it clear that we are willing to pay for an extra porter to make it more reasonable. It would be 100-150 dollars each, well worth it.

Prayer flags- done

RRainey
7th February 2008, 10:48 PM
New itinerary slightly modified and we are going to have two porters to make it easier for everyone.

10/Dec Wed Robert fly from Los Angeles
11/Dec Thu In Transit
12/Dec Fri Robert Arrive Kathmandau, Jim leaves LA
13/Dec Sat Robert Kathmandau tour
14/Dec Sun Arrive Kathmandau (Jim Wolff)
15/Dec Mon Fly to Lukla, trek to Benkar or Monjo
16/Dec Tue TrekNamche Bazaar
17/Dec Wed TrekNamche Bazaar, day trip to Khunde & Khumjung
18/Dec Thu Trek to Tangboche
19/Dec Fri Trek Dingboche (4410 m)
20/Dec Sat Trek Chhukhung (4730 m), climb Chhukhung Ri (5550m)
21/Dec Sun spare day 1- Hike to Nupse Face?
22/Dec Mon Lobuche (4910m) via Kongma La (5535m)
23/Dec Tue Gorak Shep (5160m), climb Kala Patar (5540m)
24/Dec Wed spare day 2 - EBC
25/Dec Thu Zonglha
26/Dec Fri Dragnag via Cho La
27/Dec Sat Gokyo, climb Gokyo Ri
28/Dec Sun fifth lake and beyond
29/Dec Mon Rest or easy dayhike
30/Dec Tue Lundgen via Renjo La
31/Dec Wed Lundgen to Namche
1/Jan Thu Namche to Lukla
2/Jan Fri Flight Lukla to Kathmandau/Rob and Jim both Kathmandau
3/Jan Sat Lukla to Kathmandau flight backup day /Robert fly to L.A.
4/Jan Sun Ktm Jim
5/Jan Mon KTM Jim may fly home this day, if not then
6/Jan Tue Jim Fly home to LA

I am sending a deposit today. Are there teahouses in Marulung if Lundgen ones are closed?
RR

peteris
7th February 2008, 11:16 PM
New itinerary slightly modified...

RR

17 Dec
If you are so well in altitude and will feel good, I would prefer to stay in Khumjung. Much quieter place, also stunning views from place near Everest View Hotel (I don't like this hotel). But as for me, I felt much better after sleeping two nights in Namche than after one.
From Khumjung it's normal to go to Pangboche in one day. Like others, I prefer Pangboche much more than Tengboche.

Your itinerary looks good for me because of spare days and possibility to make some changes if necessary (for example, Ch La is closed).

As mentioned before, trail Phortse - Pangboche is great. We had nice weather and I have very nice memories from this day. But this doesn't mean that you need to include it in your itinerary.
Pangboche between BIG mountains (you can see also Chukhung Ri below Nuptse-Lhotse wall)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/351781363_b91abff9aa.jpg

www.flickr.com/photos/peteris_e/sets/72157594469601299/

RRainey
7th February 2008, 11:25 PM
Well our guide suggested that we change it to Tangboche. I'll think about staying in Khumjung.

what time of year were the photos taken? what type of birds?

peteris
7th February 2008, 11:47 PM
Well our guide suggested that we change it to Tangboche. I'll think about staying in Khumjung.

what time of year were the photos taken? what type of birds?

Ok, you already have strong warning from Oli about altitude :) If it's ok with altitude, Khumjung is nice place to stay (there is good lodge in eastern part of Khumjung, managed from same people as Eco Lodge in Lobuche). There was also other contra advices for Tengboche.

Photos are from October-November. If I understand right which birds you mentioned - various pheasants. There are also many smaller birds but was unlucky to take them.