Which guidebook?

[shellbow22]

I've just discovered this forum and it's brilliant - so helpful with planning our upcoming trip!

My boyfriend and I are heading to Kathmandu in early December and plan to trek the AC and (if conditions permit) the AS. We'll head down to India afterwards for 6 weeks or so.

I was wondering which guidebook is beset for our time in Nepal? We were thinking the trailblazer Trekking in Nepal but have heard mixed reviews on this book and also the LP Trekking in Nepal. Which is more accurate and generally more informative? Any other recommendations? We're good map readers and plan to also take the maps for the walks but appreciate having a guidebook as well. At this stage we plan to do the walk independently, not having a porter or guide, however this may change.

Is there no point in taking a gortex jacket in Dec? Are we better off with merino thermals, light fleece and hiring a dowwnjacket in Kathmandu? We've never walked anywhere without a gortex before so it feels quite strange leaving it behind...

Thanks for the help!
Michelle

[Oli]

The trailblazer guides are (IMHO) the best, they have far more detail than the LP guides. And also the Yetizone (http://www.yetizone.com/) guides - not quite so professionally printed but similarly good quality info and more portable.

Maps are not really necessary for navigation on the AC, but they are helpful for working out which of the many mountains on view you are looking at. The "NepaMaps" are pretty good and readily availiable from many outlets in Kathmandu.

Also check out the YZ fourm (http://www.yetizone.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.htm)

[Escher]

I second the Trailblazer recommendation.

Personally I would leave the goretex behind and replace it with a lightweight windproof, synthetic insulated layer (not a windproof fleece) like a Patagonia puffball, RAB quantam etc as this will up your insulation, keep the wind off and shed snow all for about half or a third of the weight of goretex. It will be cold in December so this layer plus your down jacket will keep you warmer and be useful in more situations. I wouldn't go without a windproof layer.

Alternatively if you aren't looking to buy anything new and you already have a fleece in mind, take a lightweight windproof top as well the fleece(pertex is best) - some weigh less than 80grams.

[shellbow22]

Thanks for the replies and I'll definitely look into the trailblazer guidebook.

Escher - my goretex weighs 600g and I usually use it for wind protection and combine it with a light fleece (polartec 100). But that does sound like a lot of extra weight compared with a lightweight windproof jacket. I'll have to have a look around and see what I can find. My boyfriend has a paclight jacket which he'll probably take.

As for gloves, are thermal gloves (icebreaker) + windstopper gloves enough? Or should we be taking goretex gloves or even ski gloves? I have problems with cold hands and I know Dec will be cold...

And is there a direct bus to Besisahar or is it best to get the one to Dumre and change?

Sorry about all the questions...!! but thanks for the help :)

[Escher]

Those gloves sound fine to me, but if you especially suffer then I would throw in another pair of liners, then if really cold you can wear three pairs at once, as dexterity is no issue and the weight penalty is low. You might encounter extreme lows of -20 ish but you are only likely to be trekking before the sun is up when crossing the pass and that it day it will be bitterly cold for a few hours until the sun comes up. You don't need goretex gloves as waterproofing isn't required just insulation. If you want to take warmer gloves you won't regret but you should be okay with what you have suggested.

I assume that the bus goes directly to Besi but I haven't taken it, I always fly to Pokhara and spend the night there before taking a taxi to Besi in the morning. The flight to Pokhara on a clear day gives great views of the mountains (sit on the right side of the plane) and is well worth the $65 fee. I avoid buses whenever I can in Nepal especially when the views from the internal flights can be so magical. For me it is a small price to pay when looking at the money shelled out for the international flight. Also you ariive earlier at Besi than those that arrive by bus.

[shellbow22]

Thank you very much for the tips/ help!

[thesilvertops]

Hi

1st: Trailblazer, 2nd: Yetizone, Cicerone. We usually carry them all!

I think you have to take a Pokhara bus from Kathmandu and get off at Dumre. You cross the road at the road junction (on the right) and get a minibus from there to Besisahar. I don't think there is a direct Kathmandu-Besisahar bus.

Besisahar is a typical road-head village - a real dive. If you have time, try to walk on to Khudi - it's about 45/50 minutes along the track.

Have a great time.

[yakshaver]

Hi

1st: Trailblazer, 2nd: Yetizone, Cicerone. We usually carry them all!

I think you have to take a Pokhara bus from Kathmandu and get off at Dumre. You cross the road at the road junction (on the right) and get a minibus from there to Besisahar. I don't think there is a direct Kathmandu-Besisahar bus.

Besisahar is a typical road-head village - a real dive. If you have time, try to walk on to Khudi - it's about 45/50 minutes along the track.

Have a great time.

I find LP quite useful, and the concept it follows to be the best. I know it is old now (next ediction due in a couple of years time), but the format of is good. Yetizone is excellent if you want to take it on trek. But I take not guide book on trek. I do all my reading at home, and photocopy relevant reference sections. Alwasy read the about the trekking day I've just done, in the eveninig... To see if my trek was as per the book. If not, I do that trekking day again.

Secondly, yes there is (or there was last year) a direct bus to Besi.

Third, you can actually ride some vechicle to Khudi these days, no need to walk and have the 4wds passing you ind a cloud of dust.

[Todd Delaney]

I agree with the comments on guidebooks - I use trailblazer myself and have found them to be quite accurate. But realistically you don't need one...although it is nice to sit in bed and read it to build the anticipation leading up to the trip.

I also choose not to take it on the actual trek, but perhaps I will start doing so...The Shaver's practice of testing for alignment between the actual day and the planned day with a replay if necessary is excellent...

[shellbow22]

Thanks again for everyone's opinions - we bought the Trailblazer guide on Saturday and it's been very informative thus far.
I too like to read the guidebook after the day's walk rather than before - it seems more relevant!
And I think we'll try to get the direct bus to Besisahar rather than via Dumre if that's still possible.

Many thanks!!

[Suginami]

I have never seen Trailblazer Guides. I use Moon Publications and A Birdwatchers Guide to Nepal by Carol Inskipp. It details all the treks, its old but its enough.:)

[BIG H]

OK just to throw a spanner in the works. I have just returned from KTM and whilst I have the LP and Trailblazier I spotted another guide book in Thamel and left the other two behind and used this one instead. It Is written by Partha S Banerjee and is called Trekking in Nepal Annapurna its even has a trekking map which folds away neatly in the back of the book. It is part of the Milestone Himalayan Series and I rate it highly it covers the AC, ABC and short treks plus a section on the history, people logistics etc. Many other trekkers asked to look at it in lodges and they all spoke highly of it in fact at least three I know bought it afterwards. It gives a suggested day to day itinerary and includes lots of pictures etc. It cost about 700 NR and was also available in Pokhara and best of all it was printed in 2007 so is up to date as possible.

[thesilvertops]

Thanks for your note on the Milestone guidebook for Annapurna. I see from their website that they also do guidebooks for Everest region and the Markha Valley in Ladakh:

http://www.milestoneguides.com/trek-guides.html

Has anyone any experience of these two books?

[Suginami]

How much do you really need from a guide book to trekking in Nepal? Aside from just wanting to read about treks in the months before going they don't tell very much. A blueprint map from Thamel is enough for the trek. But, if you want to know what mountains you are looking at, the culture of each bit of the trek then I think they are useful. I've have never gone into the mountains with a guide book, I see them has home reference material.

Maybe Per could write a slim guide to all the different groups of people along the treks, now that I could read.

I would also love a book on the trees, plants and insects along the way. I would like a panorama mountain profile but I don't need a book to tell me how to go from Dunche to Barku or Namche to Punki.

[Per]

Maybe Per could write a slim guide to all the different groups of people along the treks, now that I could read.

Thanks for the compliment, though I am afraid it will not happen within the forseeable future.

We don´t use guide books either. I think the last time we had one in Nepal was when we did Langtang and Ganja La. It was printed locally and quite useless.

However, I feel guide books are extremely important for first time visitors to get an overview of the options at hand for trekking. If some "Mr Pradhan guide" in Thamel sinks claws into new arrivals they will be set on a diet of BS, spend a lot more, see much less, and be less likely to return to Nepal.

If we bring any guide out on the trek we do as Yakshaver, photo copy critical pages; it can be utterly useful to know that there are some good lodges in a village you expect to arrive in shortly before night fall, etc, etc.

As for route finding any better map will do. Finding the route is so simple on AC and EBC that the purpose of the map is more to tell one where one is in relation to goals along the way, rather than orientation.

I find the Google Earth absolutely stunning. For years we have noted that the Lubra Valley, from Lubra first goes east and then south towards Tilicho. There is only one watershed and on the other side one would be in the Tilicho Basin. The other day I checked it up on Google Earth and there appears to be a "trekable" valley, cross a pass from Muktinath, and then head up the valley upstream on the other side. Unless the slopes of the valley are too steep it should be possible and extremely rewarding. Great views of the rarely seen north face of Annapurna I.

http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Tilicho93/Mesokantola0067.jpg

I would do any planned trek several times on Google Earth before leaving for Nepal.

[Suginami]

I use Carol Inskipp's Birdwatcher's Guide to Nepal which outlines all the treks with simple maps. And, she covers what birds may be expected at each interval on the trek. Though old it is still valuable with excellent accounts of Upper Mai valley, Makalu etc with comments on where lodges are possible or if tents, porters and local guides are necessary. Its a wonderul addition to anyone's Nepal library. I know that she and her husband Tim regularly update thier knowledge of Nepali birdlife and India.

Next I will be birding around Lumbini for the first time. Probably not as amazing as Koshi but relatively unvisted and certainly underbirded.

[BIG H]

Thanks for your note on the Milestone guidebook for Annapurna. I see from their website that they also do guidebooks for Everest region and the Markha Valley in Ladakh:

http://www.milestoneguides.com/trek-guides.html

Has anyone any experience of these two books?

Had a very quick look at the Everest one in KTM looked ok but the quailty was not so good unless it was a copy..... The content appeared to be ok but I did flick through it rather quickly.

[thesilvertops]

Thanks for that info, Big H. And yes, we have confirmed our flight to Nepal so we will be there mid-January.

[BIG H]

Thanks for that info, Big H. And yes, we have confirmed our flight to Nepal so we will be there mid-January.

Excellent news!!!!! What are your plans for this trip? Only just back as you know and we are already thinking long and hard about when to go again. Very much look forward to hearing about your travels and where you plan to go.:)

[thesilvertops]

A really good book on fauna and flora in Nepal would be a real asset. I have not been able to find one so far. If you want to find out more about life in Nepal then I can recommend "A Winter in Nepal" by John Morris. It's from the early 60's and it's quite interesting reading. You can usually find copies on eBay for a few pounds. I have two other interesting books of photographs that I can recommend:

Regards Vers L'Annapurna by Maurice Herzog and Marcel Ichac, Publ:Arthaud

This is a photographic record of the first successful ascent of Annapurna I by Herzog in 1950. There are several pics of places and people taken on what is now the annapurna circuit.

The Picture of Everest by A. Gregory, Publ:Hodder & Stoughton

This is a lovely photographic record of the 1953 Everest expedition.

Both of these books come up on eBay occasionally. If buying the Herzog book, check with the seller that the loose map is present.

[thesilvertops]

A really good book on fauna and flora in Nepal would be a real asset. I have not been able to find one so far. If you want to find out more about life in Nepal then I can recommend "A Winter in Nepal" by John Morris. It's from the early 60's and it's quite interesting reading. You can usually find copies on eBay for a few pounds. I have two other interesting books of photographs that I can recommend:

Regards Vers L'Annapurna by Maurice Herzog and Marcel Ichac, Publ:Arthaud

This is a photographic record of the first successful ascent of Annapurna I by Herzog in 1950. There are several pics of places and people taken on what is now the annapurna circuit.

The Picture of Everest by A. Gregory, Publ:Hodder & Stoughton

This is a lovely photographic record of the 1953 Everest expedition.

Both of these books come up on eBay occasionally. If buying the Herzog book, check with the seller that the loose map is present.

[Suginami]

I think I had that book. I have scoured all the bookshops in KTM for books on climbing yet oddly I could not find Messner's for the longest time. I have it now. Chris Bonnington's books are phenomenol and there are lots more. I read any of them. The first YetiWoman to climb Everest would be snapped up. I think I read the first British, the first American woman, the youngest man, not the oldest. Herzogs account of the first 8000m ascent is classic and would make a great film if every horrible detail were filmed. Cutting off all the didgits and injections into the artery.

There is a newish birding book that I will try to get. By Inskipp on birding sites.

[thesilvertops]

The book that would make a great film is "Lost in the Himalaya" about James Scott who got lost near the two remote lodges at Phedi on the Helambu-Gosainkund trek. This is a fantastic story of persistence by Scott's sister in forcing the authorities to keep searching and finally of his rescue at the last attempt. The scary bit is that at one time he wished a plane would crash nearby and that the rescuers would then find him. One year later a Thai Airways plane crashed close by with the loss of all on board.

Last night on TV in the UK we had a film with Joe Simpson on. He was talking through "The Beckoning Silence" about the four guys who in the thirties, cracked the route up the north face of the Eiger but had to return and all lost their lives.

I'll stick to trekking I think!!

[thesilvertops]

I purchased the Milestone guidebooks for Annapurna and Everest whilst we were in Kathmandu this year. Margaret has been reading the Annapurna one and is really impressed with it. It contains a lot of useful background information, has many photographs and describes the route with detail maps. It includes a map of the circuit inside the backcover. It would be a useful book to take on trek with no need for a separate map. Recommended. 795 NRs (£6 or US$12) at Pilgrims but it was available in other book shops in Thamel.

The Everest guide is somewhat briefer and I will comment on it when Margaret has read it.

[Dansercoer]

Trekking in the Himalaya by Hashmat Singh (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trekking-Himalaya-Hashmat-Singh/dp/8174361065/)
Trekking in the Himalayas by Stefano Ardito (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trekking-Himalayas-White-Star-Guides/dp/8854401498/)
I found these on Amazon, they focus on treks and cover the entire Himalayas.
Which of those (or other) would you recommend as an introduction?

Also, does anybody know a trekking forum that covers the entire Himalayas / world?
Thank you in advance!

[Petrus]

An iteresting sidenote to Annapurna first ascent by Herzog et al; the book by the American author and climber David Roberts the ''True Summit''.

After reading the book a nagging feeling ovecame me: They did not summit at all. Larchenal is rumored to say that when drunk, and there are no photos from the summit (the iceax & flag picture could have been taken anywhere) and what is most curious there are no pictures or even verbal descriptions of the views to the south, even though they must have been spectacular and nobody had ever visited the Sactuary at that time! At that time mountaineering was hounourable and nobody dared to question the national hero who had tragically lost his fingers and toes (clumsiness turned into heroism). Same climb now would not be listed as a summit for lack of evidence.

Get it and read it.

[yakshaver]

But herzog's book is such a great read! Why do you spoil it for me?