Guides?

[mikeyjap]

I will arrive in Khatmandhu on 17th July and I was hoping to climb to Everest base camp from Jiri with a friend. We are both 22 years old and have reasonable map reading skills. I would really appreciate any comments about whether a guide would be a good thing for our trek. Would a guide take away some of the adventure? or would it be stupid to go without a guide for our own safety on the trek? We are both quite fit and so would carry our own bags, we are just not sure whether hiring a guide will be worth our while, will it be too difficult to negotiate the trek without one?
Any comments greatly appreciated.

[yakshaver]

I will arrive in Khatmandhu on 17th July and I was hoping to climb to Everest base camp from Jiri with a friend. We are both 22 years old and have reasonable map reading skills. I would really appreciate any comments about whether a guide would be a good thing for our trek. Would a guide take away some of the adventure? or would it be stupid to go without a guide for our own safety on the trek? We are both quite fit and so would carry our own bags, we are just not sure whether hiring a guide will be worth our while, will it be too difficult to negotiate the trek without one?
Any comments greatly appreciated.

In short, you don't necessarily need a guide to trek any of the "classical" treks in the Himalaya. Not that trails are signposted. You will only ever use a map in the evening at the lodge, just to kinda see what's ahead for tomorrow. You can't really get lost, especially if you are relatively communicative and talk to the lodge owners and locals on the trail.

On the other hand, I have always employed a guide/porter in my seven treks upto now. A good guide for me enhances the trekking experience. Views differ on this matter, and it is all a matter of preference. For me a guide, or at least a porter-guide is a must. Nepalis are generally friendly and communicative and happy to share their knowledge and experience.
Plus, the logistics are taken care of.
The other thing I appreciate, is having my backpack carried for me, especially as altitude increases... But you are young people and I suppose you don't mind a bit of a masochistic challenge...

On the other hand, as I said, trekking most of the popular treks in the Himal is not a wilderness adventure experience. You mostly travel from village to village.

The issue of safety is not a problem, especially if there are two of you. And usually you'll find other touists on trek to associate with. Safety comes to the fore though if something bad happens, one of you gets alltitude sickness on the middle of the night, and you don't exactly know what to do, do descend or not to descend. Is it bad enough to do so, or not... Or if you decide to cross one of the passes, or go beyond to the fifth lake at Gokyo etc...
In such situations you'd appreciate a good guide.

So basically it is upto you. For me, I enjoy the companionship of the locals, and the fact that I am looked after, for what is a small amount of money.

[Per]

Would a guide take away some of the adventure?
Yes!

or would it be stupid to go without a guide for our own safety on the trek?

No, but then it depends. Some guides may increase the risks others decrease them, depending on their caste, knowledge of the mountains etc.

We are both quite fit and so would carry our own bags, we are just not sure whether hiring a guide will be worth our while, will it be too difficult to negotiate the trek without one?


Guides tend to colour your days, to run the show, decide where to stop (where they get best commision for bringing your custom), and come in all different sorts from perfidious with horrible voices that go on and on all days to pleasant nannies that see to your every need.

We disapprove of colonialism and the use of humans as beasts of burden so we have done most treks in Nepal without guides. As for route finding it is very simple on the EBC trek. Just follow the litter ;)

By the way you are going trekking at the peak monsun season. It is a wonderful time, everything is green, and the high places that are arctically chilly in the so called trekking season are quite friendly, all meadows and flowers, but good advice is to plan for some extra days in case a bad monsun storm hits. Then, you might have to stay put for a couple of days.

http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Khumbu/Khumbu0042.jpg

Camping at Gorakhshep in early August

More photos on http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Khumbu/Khumbu92trek1.html

[James]

If your budget is tight you can skip hiring a guide as you will not get lost even if you try. However, I liked having a guide. My guide was an educated professional who made the experience all the more interesting. In the evening, I found many independent trekkers joining our political or social conversations and card games. Bottom line, I think a trek with a good guide provides a much deeper experience.

Aside from making a new friend and providing some much needed financial support I don't see a downside. The worst case, you "hired" someone you don't get along with. Just remember you are the employer and you set the terms.

As for the adventure part, the EBC trek is relatively civilized. The challenge is your fitness and how well you adjust to the elevation.

[Per]

If your budget is tight you can skip hiring a guide as you will not get lost even if you try.

True, that goes for the Langtang trek (except across Ganja La) and the Annapurna treks too. All along the way are friendly lodges that are catering to trekkers.

I find that I get in much better contact with the locals then people with guides do. Then, again it depends on who you are trekking with. Many of the dudes that hang around Thamel and call themselves guides are in some respects more foreign to Sherpa culture than you are. The ideal guide for Solu Khumbu would be a Sherpa.

Are we talking about the Annapurna circuit it gets more difficult as the people of Manang think portering is degrading, when Maurize Herzog tried to recruit porters there they simply told him to piss off. The same goes for Thakallis, i.e., the people in the upper Kali Gandaki. They never porter. Many locals tend to think the guides are commision seekers with a prejudiced view of their culture. While I stayed in Manag for a longer period I listned to other peoples guides and I was amazed at the amount of BS they served their clients.

[yakshaver]

True, that goes for the Langtang trek (except across Ganja La) and the Annapurna treks too. All along the way are friendly lodges that are catering to trekkers.

I find that I get in much better contact with the locals then people with guides do. Then, again it depends on who you are trekking with. Many of the dudes that hang around Thamel and call themselves guides are in some respects more foreign to Sherpa culture than you are. The ideal guide for Solu Khumbu would be a Sherpa.

Are we talking about the Annapurna circuit it gets more difficult as the people of Manang think portering is degrading, when Maurize Herzog tried to recruit porters there they simply told him to piss off. The same goes for Thakallis, i.e., the people in the upper Kali Gandaki. They never porter. Many locals tend to think the guides are commision seekers with a prejudiced view of their culture. While I stayed in Manag for a longer period I listned to other peoples guides and I was amazed at the amount of BS they served their clients.


Yes, there are guides who are not professionals, just there to make a buck, and the foreign tourist will be none the wiser...

I guess this is why I advise that if you intend on hiring a guide, go with recommendations of people who've been there a number of times. Like Sharon or Andrees, or me, for example.

I do recongnise the difficulty of a first time trekker, when every guide and his dog put their hand up, saying pick me up....

This is why sites like these, who've have formed a comunity of Himalaya lovers, can provide balanced and useful advice.

People will get more sophisticated information, including going with or without a guide/porter, pros and cons, etc - in a more balanced way.

Nice pic Per!

[James]

Yakshaver,

Are you suggesting that there are only three valid opinions on this bulletin board?

I guess this is why I advise that if you intend on hiring a guide, go with recommendations of people who've been there a number of times. Like Sharon or Andrees, or me, for example.

James

[yakshaver]

Yakshaver,

Are you suggesting that there are only three valid opinions on this bulletin board?

James


Far from it James. I guess you're refering to the alternative of using guides (you don't have to, as Per, Oli and other (valid??? What is validity?) participants eloquently state from time to time). Recommended guides more specifically, but it can refer to anything really...
If you look carefuly at the guides statement, I use the qualifier "for example". It is possible that Sharon and Andrees came to my mind, because these are the people who, along with me, have used the same guides/porters over the years - and have recommended them.

You may have done the same, I am not aware of it...

I am apologizing for any sense of frustration I may have caused. Please be assured this was unintentional, inadvertent (also without really wanting to do such a thing... :).

And as I was asking above, what is validity anwyay? I think that our scientific age (say since the rennaiscence) screwed us with overemphasizing objectivity... Without balancing the act provided by intuition/emotion - validity/logic/rationality are simple tools who can take you really astray very fast. They suck in and off themselves, as a tool box of some tradesman sucks if we expect the tools to guide the process.
Logic, valid reasoning etc, without using gut-feel, emotion/intuition is like seeing the world with just one eye. No perspective.

Man... I love these discussions... I am sure I'm the only one talking. Wich is one way of having an intellingent conversation.

Interestingly, Enstein is quoted as saying that intuitive thinking helped him much more in the development of the relativity and other theories. Much more than logical thinking and the use of rationality. In a sense he's saying that he'd never reached an understaning of time/space continuum etc, with logical rational scientific thought alone.
More like the ancient mistics (wether Christian/Buddhist/Hindu etc), who've come to such realisations intuitively. But whom we've ignored and continue to ignore.

[mikeyjap]

I just thought I'd say a quick thank you to everybody who replied to my post. My friend and I have decided to trek without a guide and the advice from this message board has been excellent and a fantastic balanced view so, thank you very much. Mike

[barclay007]

I'm so confused.
After much concernation and research, I hired a guide last Nov and did ABC and the Sancuary. I did not meet any unguided groups and was told that this was a government mandate, ie, the TRC.
This Nov. I am planning to do the Jiri-EBC. Do I have the option to do it without? Has there been a change or is the ABC still a mandated guided trek?
The Maestro

[thesilvertops]

Last November the TRC was in force and you had to hire a guide and/or porters. The TRC was scrapped earlier this year and currently you do not need to hire a guide/porters. There are persistent reports from Nepal that it will not be re-introduced and that independent trekkers will be free to go their own way.

TAAN (Trekking Agents Association of Nepal) took advantage of the political situation and pushed the TRC through but I believe that the full legal process was not carried out and it had to be scrapped. It was a licence to print money for TAAN and caused a lot of ill feeling amongst trekkers and also I think sections of the Nepali trekking business.