Maosts just below Namche

[Todd Delaney]

Am writing this from Namche...today myself and lots of other trekkers were all forced to pay 2500 Rp just before Monjo on the way up to Namche...

According to the local sherpas I spoke to they have been working this area for the last few days while now extorting money from the trekking lodges...

They had a long table table setup with 3 people sitting down then 2 other people stopping all trekkers from passing...a receipt was issued...the sherpa guide that I was with was told by them that they would be checking receipts further up the trail...although we did not see anyone else nor did anyone check my receipt...

I intend to claim this on my insurance as armed robbery, and will make the appropriate police statement before leaving...

BFN

[Oli]

Hi Todd, this is not good news, but thanks for reporting it.

The army bases at Lukla and Namche are pretty secure, but evidently the trail between them is not. And it is disturbing to hear that the maoists are still up to their extortion - evidently their adherence to the ceasefire does not limit them to strictly legal activities. And you can be sure that the menaces used to extract money from the lodge owners are rather more unpleasant than those used to rob tourists.

There may soon be a gun battle in this area. :eek:

And Todd, I don't know how successful you will be in making an insurance claim for this. As likely as not your insurance underwriters will say you should have expected this sort of robbery and/or that it's an act of war or somesuch. edit/ps: but good luck trying

[mieke]

@ Todd,
In spite of this unexpected experience you had, I hope you'll nevertheless have a very enjoyable and safe trek in the Khumbu, pleasant weather and a safe return.

But it's like Oli said: thanks very much for reporting. Because what you said doesn't sound very good. Not primarily because of the 2.500 Rupees, but because of what these events might cause in terms of trouble between the Sherpas of Namche, and their Maoist "brothers". Both groups can be very determined to get what they want, or don't want!

So, and instead of asking your permission first, I've mentioned your news on Thorn Tree meanwhile and also on the German Trekkingforum. Couldn't simply link, because this sub-forum is invisible to people who are not registered and logged-in here. Both the webforums I mentioned are frequented by quite a number of people who have the Khumbu on their trekking itinerary later this month. And because what you described is rather unprecedented in recent years, I guess they deserve to be aware as well. Hope that's okay with you.

Take care, and enjoy your trek!

[polecat]

I'm very sorry, but: WHY you so afraid maoists? Why you see a problem? It's just my interest...

[mieke]

"Maoists" are Nepalis who are the result of a lot of injustice and poverty especially on the countryside, and they have become "one side" in what was definitely a civil war between 1996 and perhaps the summer of 2006. A civil war is not to be compared with many other types of war; it's worse.
And to answer your question polecat: afaik Maoists have never much been in the area of Sagarmatha National Park, also because of a heavy Nepali Army-presence there throughout the years. The army is still there, there is an entirely new government in charge since May, the peace-talks with the Maoists were postponed again, and now it's possible - contrary to many previous years - for Maoist Nepalis to extort the Sherpas in and around Namche Bazaar?
The Sherpas, the Khumbu have never suffered too much from the political crisis and the civil war this past decade. Because Sagarmatha Park was protected - as said - also by a heavy army presence and patrolling. Do you see the danger, the worries now with this sudden news Todd posted?

I should add that the above are my views, my understanding of the past and the present. But what I know for sure is that the Sherpas of the Khumbu will not sit still very long and let it all happen. And what about the army and the police out there? What are their orders? Which is probably what Oli meant too when he said there's a risk then perhaps of a couple of fights very soon, to get rid again of the Maoists in the Khumbu/Sagarmatha Park. You may like them, a lot of people do not and for very good reasons.

edited for language error

[Oli]

remember the Battle (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3555049.stm) of (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3558101.stm) Beni (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=330162004)

[polecat]

remember the Battle (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3555049.stm) of (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3558101.stm) Beni (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=330162004)

:)
Version of mass media:
"NEPALI troops killed 500 Maoist rebels in a 12-hour battle yesterday, the army said" ( http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=330162004 )


Version of Maoists:
"Even though the royal spin-doctors initially tended to cover up their total defeat in the battle of Beni and fictitiously sought to mislead the entire world by claiming that the PLA attack was foiled with “500 casualties” (which was unquestionably carried by the major world media), the real truth was gradually unfolded and it was irrefutably established that the royal army had faced one of the most emphatic and humiliating defeats in the entire civil war in the past eight years. A number of independent journalists and observers have now visited Beni and verified the real story originally told by the PLA Commissar and Commander." ( http://www.cpnm.org/new/English/documents/bulletin-9.htm )

So, who is right?
Let's remember the history of revolution in Cuba... and position of american and pro-american mass-media and the actual state of affairs

[Oli]

Yes, thanks for that polecat. I had just been reading that infromation bulletin and was considering refining my choice of links... (I'll not bother now)

Generally the Nepali war has been conducted away from most tourists, but the lure of tourist dollars is too much for the greedy mao bandits and too important for the government coffers. It is impossible to say who is right and who is Right. It's all a sad horrible messy situation, and the main losers are the thousands of innocents that have died over the years. Do ask the Nepali to try to explain it to you and try to understand their plight.

I'm sure that if they do have a little battle down below Lukla they will all try hard to not shoot any trekkers. But if it does kick off then it has the potential to be explosive.

[yakshaver]

All this is a "development" on the Lukla Namche Khumbu situation. This is the first instance of an official trekker reporting Maoists asking for money after Lukla.

The situation between the Maoists and the Nepali army is not so clear now. There is an official truce in place (going on 6 months now), and the Maoists are supposed to be part of the new constitutional assembly which might be called at some stage. They are no longer officially "the enemy".

I guess that under this confusing situation, the army no longer just starts fighting them at any give opportunity.

Would this have lead to the maomao setting up shop at Monjo (convenient place to set up a toll-booth by the way... This is where the old Sagarmatha National Park permit and pay chek-booth was...)

I am eagarly awaiting other trekkers to report this.

It may well be that this does not last for long. The maoists depend on local support and the people of the vally were not usually interested in them at all.

Still, no reason not to trek.

[Boulia]

I find this a disturbing development. On top the reports of 'increased' extortion from business by the Maoists, UN reports that projects simply can't proceed or are hindered by Maoists 'tax' demands and the advent of Maoist inspired unions all points to a situation that is not under control of the interim government and nor will it be. At at point of their chosing I expect the Maoists to attempt to take full control of Nepal by force, minus the democractic process and 'peace taks' they pretend to be embracing.

[yakshaver]

I find this a disturbing development. On top the reports of 'increased' extortion from business by the Maoists, UN reports that projects simply can't proceed or are hindered by Maoists 'tax' demands and the advent of Maoist inspired unions all points to a situation that is not under control of the interim government and nor will it be. At at point of their chosing I expect the Maoists to attempt to take full control of Nepal by force, minus the democractic process and 'peace taks' they pretend to be embracing.


On the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy it says in big bold happy letters: DON'T PANIC!

I don't know about how disturbing this is Boulia. I am taking a long term view, looking both at the past and trying to guess into the future.

There were many events over the past 6-7 years which various people found disturbing in Nepal. Some have sounded the death-knell, or at least rigour-mortis setting in, for tourism in Nepal many times over the last few years.

I find this neither disturbing nor alarming in any way. This is how things are. We keep analysing Nepal by Western standards. It is a totally wrong point of reference to start with.
Not saying in any way that things in Nepal are rosy. In fact there has been some really bad stuff happening. For Nepalis, not for tourists.

In terms of tourism, I believe that it will merrilly will continue in one form or another.

[stilltrekkin]

Interesting discussion and as the new "kid" on the block, I can't resist jumping in. I am also saddened to know of the latest "donation booth" set up by the Maoists in what has, until very recently, a territory seemingly untouched by the rebels. However, they were never far away. For years their presence has been very much evident on the Jiri to Lukla route, also on the trail from Phaphlu to Lukla and eastward over the pass connecting Lukla with the Makalu Barun National Park and the Arun Valley. It has taken them a very long time to push northward beyond Lukla, but not surprising to hear that they are now taking advantage of the traffic on the Everest trail. I'm told their second "check post" is on the climb to Namche at the viewpoint previously frequented by Army patrols. Since the cease fire came into affect, the rules agreed to by both sides were supposed to limit the distance that soldiers and rebels would venture beyond their camps. Seems like this is another example of the Maoist belief that rules are made to be broken or, at the very least, obeyed by the other guy!
As for armed conflict spreading up the Everest trail in the future, I think residents of the Phaphlu and Salleri areas, south of Lukla, would tell you that it has never been far away for many people in the Solu Khumbu - just hasn't, thankfully, affected or involved foreign trekkers.

[yakshaver]

Indeed "stilltrekking" Phaphlu and Salleri have witnessed some horroble massacres over the years. I guess the dynamic is somewhat different now. It all depends on how the politics pan out in KTM.

In the meantime, let's hope it stays safe for tourists, as it has done upto now. From this point of view, at least....

[Oli]

Welcome 'stilltrekkin', I think I recognise you from browsing TT, I'm sure your postings will be of equal value here.

It'll be interesting to see how this will pan out, there are many contentious points here. How long can the army overlook such obvious expansion into prime territory? And not just positioning of forces but blatantly fleecing the tourists. Maybe they could have gotten away with a little bit of maneuvering and quiet extortion of the locals, but now it is impossible to come trekking in Nepal and be oblivious to this extra/unoffical tax/baksheesh or "donation". Is this a brief incident or will there be a big standoff before some deals are done. If it all boils up will they go to the point of open violence in front of tourists?

And do the trekkers from Jiri who already paid get to pass for free or reduced rates?

I'm sure we'll see in due course

[Harry]

I'm very sorry, but: WHY you so afraid maoists? Why you see a problem? It's just my interest...

It's more worse than you even can think! There are stories which you can not believe, they have butchered people and forced their relatives to cook the ears and geniticals in the meal. They are worse than your worst nightmare! :mad:

[Harry]

:)
Version of mass media:
"NEPALI troops killed 500 Maoist rebels in a 12-hour battle yesterday, the army said" ( http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=330162004 )


Version of Maoists:
"Even though the royal spin-doctors initially tended to cover up their total defeat in the battle of Beni and fictitiously sought to mislead the entire world by claiming that the PLA attack was foiled with “500 casualties” (which was unquestionably carried by the major world media), the real truth was gradually unfolded and it was irrefutably established that the royal army had faced one of the most emphatic and humiliating defeats in the entire civil war in the past eight years. A number of independent journalists and observers have now visited Beni and verified the real story originally told by the PLA Commissar and Commander." ( http://www.cpnm.org/new/English/documents/bulletin-9.htm )

So, who is right?
Let's remember the history of revolution in Cuba... and position of american and pro-american mass-media and the actual state of affairs

Hey Moscovic,

What's your deal in the mao story. They are the bad guys!:confused:

[yakshaver]

Hey Moscovic,

What's your deal in the mao story. They are the bad guys!:confused:


Harry, please refrain from inflamatory comments like this. As I am going to kindly ask from polecat.

This is not a political forum. And the situation in Nepal is far more complex, well beyond calling one party of another "the bad guys". Or "the good guys" for that matter... Nepal is not a simplistic Holywood movie. I wish it was, but it is not.

[Oli]

I am of the opinion that a certain amount of political discussion is unavoidable on this forum. The maoist insurgency has been a big problem in Nepal for many years, it is not possible for trekkers to avoid or ignore the issue and it is important for us to be at least aware of the situation and perhaps try to understand some of the reasons and implications. I would agree that this forum is primarily for trekking information and that we should discourage heated political debates, but lets just try to stick to the facts and not suppress them altogether. It is not wrong per se to have the opinion that the maoists are the "bad guy", but remember that there are two sides to the story.

Actually there are more than two sides - the maoists, the army, the government, the king and all the other good people of Nepal. But I wont start ranting my political opinions, for now....

[yakshaver]

True Oli, I agree with you. Some political discussion is unavoidable, may even be necessary at times.

I was perhaps more concerned about strong statements, and name calling...

And I emphasized the political stuff, instead of the expressions which could have been all to easily interpreted as crass insults.
Of course more subtle insults may be ok...

[Harry]

Harry, please refrain from inflamatory comments like this. As I am going to kindly ask from polecat.

This is not a political forum. And the situation in Nepal is far more complex, well beyond calling one party of another "the bad guys". Or "the good guys" for that matter... Nepal is not a simplistic Holywood movie. I wish it was, but it is not.

Sorry Daniel! :o

[Spaceman347]

It would appear that Todd's post got some attention;

mounteverest.net (http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15205)

[CanTrekker]

First, the Nepali government issued the “TRC”, then Mao installed their toll both beyond Lukla. Will these 2 parties understanding that they are harming their tourism industry? :confused:

After this news, I will defiantly need to revise my plan of visiting Nepal after adding these expenses to my budget.:mad:

[yakshaver]

First, the Nepali government issued the “TRC”, then Mao installed their toll both beyond Lukla. Will these 2 parties understanding that they are harming their tourism industry? :confused:

After this news, I will defiantly need to revise my plan of visiting Nepal after adding these expenses to my budget.:mad:

Yes it all seems a bit confusing... The Maoists on the Lukla-Namche strip seem to charge the same as they do on the Annapurna Circuit, 100 rupees per trekking day. Which may add 1000-1500 ruppess, about 20 US dollars, or 20 AUD to the trek per person. The TRC fee itself is negligeable, 250 rupees. These elements in themselves do not greately increase the cost of trekking.

The main issue is of course for the independent trekkers, who don't wish to take a guide or porter with them.

If you plan to take a guide/porter it does not matter much...

Some people on this web, e.g. Sharon, myself, do hire guides. We have excellent guides, with whom we've trekked repeatedly, and who definitely enhance our trekking experience. (Speak to either of us for a good guide recommendation, if you wish).
So for us TRC does not matter much.

I am against TRC on principle, though. People should be able to walk in the mountains whichever way they feel like... In any mountains of God's earth...

To keep things in perspective, this new TRC imposition, if it indeed comes about, while annoying in the extreme due to it's guide/porter imposition - is not something totally innovative. Many walks and trekks around the world are restricted in various fashions. Milford and Routebourn traks in New Zealand, Torres del Paine in Chile, Buthan trekking, Upper Mustang treks etc, some walks in the Alps. These treks are taxed, some of them heavily. For the privilege of trekking in Buthan you have to for out about 1000 US dollars, for example. I had to pay 7 Euro to visit a canyon vally (all of 30 minutes walk) near Grindelwald, in Switzerland. You may say it serves me right for going to the American/Japanese tourist infested Grindelwald. One lives and learns... I will never go there again.
And I have no idea about moutain walks in North America... But I am almost sure you must pay for accessing some areas.

[CanTrekker]

Thanks Yakshaver,

My problem with having a guide is that, I found it very annoying when you have someone you do not know, with different background and very much involve in your 2 weeks trekking. We have planned to do the EBC again, without a guide, because we did not enjoy it that much.

Anyway, I may just go with a porter that does not speak English to enjoy my trekking.

[Sharon]

My problem with the TRC is that I like to get my money out in the hills and to families that need the revenue. Fees that stay in Kathmandu and generally see me pay more and the staff get paid less are what I object to. I have guides that are good friends and I look forward to seeing them and their families.

[Todd Delaney]

First time I have used Flickr...so hope the link works...

http://static.flickr.com/89/280488817_fa27c68d86_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/95/280484338_4bb3390a13_b.jpg

they were more than happy for us to take pictures...the fella on the left is actually wearing a "NY" hat...inline with his Maoist ideals?, or perhaps just the street robbery idea ...

In talking to them, (the folks at the checkpoint)...they feel that once their political party gets into government, Nepal will be transformed into a Switzerland like country with economy to match... The Moaist propaganda machine must be working overtime...

[Escher]

Todd,

If you paste your Flickr links into the "insert image" dialog (its the yellow icon with the mountain and sun/moon on it - when writing a post) your pictures will actually appear in the post itself. Like we have done here:-

http://www.trekinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3827&page=2