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View Full Version : Annapurna Trek WITHOUT permit


polecat
28th September 2006, 11:25 PM
Dear friends,

if TAAN don't wish to allow independing trekking, so independed trekkers will be have independent trek, let even illegal :) May be our will be first

So, we'll plane to go to trek around Annapurna at the end of October. Without porter/guide - it's clear. As I understand we'll need to go "hiding" in areas where check-posts are located. Now I see only 2 problems with check-posts: in Besisahar and in Jomsom.

If you have been trek last time in Annapurna area, and have some information about roundabout ways near Besisahar and Jomsom, please give me this information. If you have other usefull info about my idea - please-please, tell me.

Best regards, Dmitry from Moscow.

mieke
29th September 2006, 02:01 AM
Hmmm, Dmitry do you have an Embassy or a Consulate in Kathmandu? And if you do, what do they think of these plans?

You see, if you'd really get yourself in trouble that way - not obeying the rules of trekking in the Annapurnas - it's your foreign diplomats that need to find a way to get you out, or buy you out, or whatever... Will they?

polecat
29th September 2006, 02:35 AM
Hmmm, Dmitry do you have an Embassy or a Consulate in Kathmandu? And if you do, what do they think of these plans?
Sure, in Kathmandu we have russian embassy. What do they think? They don't know :) It's my problem.

You see, if you'd really get yourself in trouble that way - not obeying the rules of trekking in the Annapurnas - it's your foreign diplomats that need to find a way to get you out, or buy you out, or whatever... Will they?
I know that I'll take risks, and I know that must be responsible for my decision. It's also my problem.

I need only information about check-posts

Oli
29th September 2006, 03:07 AM
Part of the problem is that we don't really know how they are going to enforce TRC, not least where all the checkpoints will be located. If they have a checkpoint at the top of Thorung La then you might have a very hard time sneaking by.

Maybe you could sneak past a couple of checkpoints manned my lazy TAAN guards, but if you happen to meet a guide who is loyal to the cabal then he may well inform on you, the game would be over and you could be in a lot of trouble.

I wish you good luck with your trek, but I don't think that I can publicly condone and assist you in willfully breaking Nepali law, even if it is a very stupid law.

polecat
29th September 2006, 03:28 AM
Part of the problem is that we don't really know how they are going to enforce TRC, not least where all the checkpoints will be located. If they have a checkpoint at the top of Thorung La then you might have a very hard time sneaking by.

Yes you right. Therefore we need to ask, ask and ask native people.

If checkpost will be at the top of Thorung La, there are will be 1, max 2 peoples. So what? What 2 small nepali can do for me? Fight? Detain? How? :))) Or report to next checkpoint? No, it is not really problem.

Maybe you could sneak past a couple of checkpoints manned my lazy TAAN guards, but if you happen to meet a guide who is loyal to the cabal then he may well inform on you, the game would be over and you could be in a lot of trouble.
You right. Thanx, I'll think about this and how to prevent such situations...

Harry
29th September 2006, 04:31 AM
Rules are rules! You are a guest in Nepal and keep it that way. Don't play it the tough way, you might meet up with some Mao.....what you do than?
Look forward to your point of view in that.

Nazdrovje!

Harry

polecat
29th September 2006, 04:58 AM
Rules are rules! You are a guest in Nepal and keep it that way. Don't play it the tough way, you might meet up with some Mao.....what you do than?
Look forward to your point of view in that.

Nazdrovje!

Harry

Sorry, I hold in high respect your opinion, Harry, but I have other ideology. I'll be guest in Nepal, guest de la tierra y de la poblacion, BUT NOT guest of nepalesse government. Different things!
And I hate stupid rules and stupid laws. F.e. if you like smoke and smoke knowingly, you smoke in Netherlands only or in France too? If rules disturb me and breaking don't disturb others - I'll always to break stupid rules.
About Mao: I had a meeting with maoist rebels and I absolutely sure that they are really people right to rebel. Their position is more-more humane than official government position. 2 years ago, when I met maoists, I didn't pay donation: we had conversation and they told "Go free". But I donated 500 Rps - voluntarily (!) for their " just cause". It was my choice.

yakshaver
29th September 2006, 06:09 AM
Sorry, I hold in high respect your opinion, Harry, but I have other ideology. I'll be guest in Nepal, guest de la tierra y de la poblacion, BUT NOT guest of nepalesse government. Different things!
And I hate stupid rules and stupid laws. F.e. if you like smoke and smoke knowingly, you smoke in Netherlands only or in France too? If rules disturb me and breaking don't disturb others - I'll always to break stupid rules.
About Mao: I had a meeting with maoist rebels and I absolutely sure that they are really people right to rebel. Their position is more-more humane than official government position. 2 years ago, when I met maoists, I didn't pay donation: we had conversation and they told "Go free". But I donated 500 Rps - voluntarily (!) for their " just cause". It was my choice.

Yes, I agree with trying to disregard silly rules. I relate to that, and have done it in the past, in various areas of life.
But there is also the issue of the stress you put yourself through during a time where you are supposed to enjoy yourself. Unless you definitely get a thrill out of the risks you are taking. Again fairly understandable, done that too...

There are several elements to think about here:
1) The assumption that the TRC check posts on the AC will be the same as the ACAP posts (which, at last check were Besisahar, Hongde, Jomson and Birethanti - if you got out through there...) - Oli may well be right in that TRC posts could be placed elsewhere - Difficult to pass places like Thorung La Base Camp, or High Camp.
2) If TRC checkposts will be the "traditional ones", hat the police who check for the ACAP will also check for TRC - which may not be necessarily so. Police are there to check for ACAP, they are not employees of TAAN. Still, even if there is a different entity responsible for TRC, you get "two pairs of eyes" watching the road. Which may make it more difficult to sneak past, than it is now.

3) TRC appears to have been posponed, though this is as yet unconfirmed. If it is indeed thrown in the "too hard" basket, you may be worried for nothing. I assume here that you will get your ACAP permit. For me it would not be worth the hassle of being turned back if found in the middle of the AC without one. The fine would not worry me, but being turned back will not be worth the hassle.

James
29th September 2006, 07:34 AM
An act of civil disobedience? Bad laws make good people lawbreakers. If the TRC wasn't such a blatant money grab it would be respected. Even still I wouldn't advocate breaking the law. If you don't like the house rules go somewhere else to play. Sooner or later TAAN will get the message.

While having a guide and a porter adds to the experience and it is good to support the local economy, forcing the use of a TAAN member is offensive (even if you would otherwise choose to use a TAAN member agency).

What has surprised me is that there hasn't been more protest as to how this will hurt the independent guides and porters. Im sure that independent guides and porters are making more money that agency employees. The TRC will have a very real impact on how the tourist dollars get divided and it will be interesting to see if the lodge owners, guides and porters organize to offset the new found power of TAAN.

Andy K
29th September 2006, 01:20 PM
I have just yesterday heard from a friend who arrived in Ktmd yesterday & who kindly "organised" my ACAP Permit (Im getting there next Friday :-). She had a lot of hassle getting these permits without an agency. Apparently the ACAP are insisting that you have a guide &/or porter or have an agency. This suggests to me that it may well be impossible to get the ACAP or Everest permits without a TRC - once its "official".

It looks like Im going to get by without this crap this time around but for my next tour it would be interesting to hear your report. I would advise to keep a couple of 500 or 1000 Rupie notes handy - its sometimes amazing how problems can be solved with a little judiciously used "baksheesh" .

I like starting off early in the morning and I have often noticed that these post are unmanned if you get there before 6:00/6:30. At Besisahar if the line is too long I have just sauntered up the road as if I was going to stay there and then taken the path which starts right at the end of the road - thus avoiding the wait.

I wish you lots of success and please post your experiences once you get back.

polecat
29th September 2006, 04:53 PM
1) The assumption that the TRC check posts on the AC will be the same as the ACAP posts (which, at last check were Besisahar, Hongde, Jomson and Birethanti - if you got out through there...) - Oli may well be right in that TRC posts could be placed elsewhere - Difficult to pass places like Thorung La Base Camp, or High Camp.

2) If TRC checkposts will be the "traditional ones", hat the police who check for the ACAP will also check for TRC - which may not be necessarily so. Police are there to check for ACAP, they are not employees of TAAN. Still, even if there is a different entity responsible for TRC, you get "two pairs of eyes" watching the road. Which may make it more difficult to sneak past, than it is now.

3) TRC appears to have been posponed, though this is as yet unconfirmed. If it is indeed thrown in the "too hard" basket, you may be worried for nothing. I assume here that you will get your ACAP permit. For me it would not be worth the hassle of being turned back if found in the middle of the AC without one. The fine would not worry me, but being turned back will not be worth the hassle.

Well, I think that TRC and ACAP posts will be same, just because TAAN need time for making special places for TRC employees. Perhaps next year will be different TRC posts, but I'm in some doubt about this november.



An act of civil disobedience? Bad laws make good people lawbreakers. If the TRC wasn't such a blatant money grab it would be respected. Even still I wouldn't advocate breaking the law. If you don't like the house rules go somewhere else to play. Sooner or later TAAN will get the message.

While having a guide and a porter adds to the experience and it is good to support the local economy, forcing the use of a TAAN member is offensive (even if you would otherwise choose to use a TAAN member agency).

What has surprised me is that there hasn't been more protest as to how this will hurt the independent guides and porters. I’m sure that independent guides and porters are making more money that agency employees. The TRC will have a very real impact on how the tourist dollars get divided and it will be interesting to see if the lodge owners, guides and porters organize to offset the new found power of TAAN.

Raither act of defence of my own liberty :)
I think I'll take ACAP permit, and even TRC - no problem. Even I can to pay for porter/guide for agency, in case of he will remain on paper only, not with me in mountains.

Friends, if I take both permits (ACAP, TRC) and 'll go solo, what do you mean about amount of baksheesh for TRC employees?