Trekking Registration Certificate & the Independent Trekker [Archive]

Oli

18th August 2006, 04:55 AM

Has anyone here got any good information on the Trekking Registration Certificate? All I can find is a couple of press releases from TAAN...

http://www.taan.org.np/news_details1.php?nid=274

The government has decided to implement the much-awaited Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) through Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN). TAAN had been demanding for the implementation of TRC to check illegal operations in the trekking industry.

Sounds like the intention is to stop the illegal unregistered tourist agencies, and to establish a central registration of all trekkers. Which is fair enough

http://www.taan.org.np/news_details1.php?nid=283

As demanded by TAAN, the Nepal Government has introduced the provision of TRC to help control various anomalies, including illegal operation. TRC is likely to come into effect from the last week of September this year. With the implementation of TRC, the visiting trekkers must go on trekking through the registered Nepalese trekking agencies and pay a small amount of money.

What does this mean for the independent trekker? Is this an effort to make a proper record of who is on the trails (for safety reasons) and to regulate the trekking industry (for commercial reasons)? Or will this mean that all trekking *must* be done via a TAAN agency and we are required to employ guides or go with a group? How will this be implemented, from the details of the restrictions & requirements to the cost of the certificate and services etc.

Unfortunately we don't know yet. This is due to be implemented at the end of September and we there have been no proper announcements other than the TAAN press releases. Apparently the NTB say independent teahouse trekking will be OK, but TAAN say otherwise, so whom are we to believe? Which government office decided to pass these regulations?

I have written to both TAAN & NTB to seek some clarification on TRC and its implications for me and the likes of us, I'll report here what they have to say. And if any of you find more info elsewhere on the net then please post links in this thread. I'd also like to hear from any of the Nepali trekking people who frequent this forum, both from TAAN agencies and also the independent guides who like to work with us independent trekkers, we'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on TRC an what it means for you.

Boulia

21st August 2006, 01:04 AM

Oli

This is the response from NTB to my question of what independent trekkers need to do. My question to them is below.

"Dear Mr. Wayne,

It is not necessary for Independent trekkers to go through trekking agencies. However, one has to register with Trekking Agents Association of Nepal before embarking trekking paying a very nominal charge.

Rgs,

Sarad Pradhan"

At 02:51 PM 8/19/2006, you wrote:

As a regular visitor to Nepal in recent years I am surprised to hear yet another certificate will be required to trek. Please tell me if independent trekkers will still be able to trek without using a trekking agency and needing to obtain this certificate ?

Oli

21st August 2006, 03:52 AM

Thanks Boulia. That is pretty much what the NTB told thesilvertops, but Rajendra (Third Pole Trekking, IIRC) says that is "none sense" and "Trekkers have to join with the company". [see this (http://www.yetizone.com/wwwboard/messages/49529.shtml) thread on Yetizone]

So it seems to me that TAAN and NTB disagree on the TRC, and it doesn't help that they are giving us conflicting advice. Well, sort of, neither of them have answered my email. :confused:

As it happens I'm considering hiring a guide & porter for a Langtang teahouse trek next spring - but I'm loathe to go with any agency who tell me I have to use their services when actually I don't. Oh well. I expect it'll all work out in the end.

Oli

24th August 2006, 03:39 AM

I've had an email from NTB, who say "There is no need to take the service of a porter or a guide against your wish especially in areas that have tea houses along the trekking trail." - and reiterated that point, including use of italics for emphasis.

And I've had a couple of emails from someone via TAAN, but they didn't contain any useful into.

Also Andrees found this (http://www.yetizone.com/wwwboard/messages/49634.shtml) statement, which says (amongst other fluff) that the TRC will cost trekkers 250NRs, a token amount, but I am sure it'll cost a whole lot more to implement.

yakshaver

28th August 2006, 04:29 AM

I got the same information and impressions as Oli and Boulia. There is still a lot to be understood in terms of how this policy is going to pan out. The good news from the trekkers perspective is that they can still trek independently if they wish.
The move appears to be aimed at stamping out independent guides/porters, and driving trekkers towards the "registered trekking agencies".
This would be a big blow to competitiveness, in my opinion.

The full implications are not very clear. I believe Oli has asked some hard questions, or someone...
For example what about deciding in Namche, or Chame or wherever, that I need a guide, or a porter? Who in his right mind will be able to force me and police me that that person is registered with a trekking agency? We know they won't be. Not unless Nepal becomes as efficient as Switzerland all of a sudden. Big heffers do fly, we all know that. On the other hand, just having a guide, and pretending he's not your guide until you get past the check point... (I assume there will be one, and I assume they will not stop the flow of Nepalis "going about their business"...). There are all sorts of situations. There will be some corruption of officials at checking points (again, assuming there will be check points).
I will not be stopped by some official I can bribe with 500 rupees to let me go through with my guide, anymore than I was stopped by the Maoists demanding money. I know others have higher morals and standards and I agree to disagree.

Most probably, big trekking agencies will benefit, first-timers may well flock to them in greater numbers.

But the system will be fairly porous and people who know their stuff will still go about their buisness the way they have done it in the past.

daras

28th August 2006, 07:30 PM

Hi,
Please see answer from TAAN for my question regarding independent trek (witout guide/porter).

rgds
daras

::: answer from TAAN ::: 28.09.2006 :::

Dear Mr. Darek,
Trekking rules of Nepal has been recently changed so please read the file
attached herewith throughly before you visit Nepal. I think this document
will be helpful to you.

Regards
Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN)

Nepal Government assigns TAAN to implement

Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC)

Registration Required for trekkers

With a view to checking illegal operations in the trekking business and
ensuring safety and security of trekkers, the Nepal Government has
introduced a new rule that requires all trekkers to go on trekking in
various parts of the country only through registered trekking agencies after
having a Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) from Trekking Agents
Association of Nepal (TAAN). As an umbrella organization of more than 550
registered trekking companies of Nepal, TAAN has been authorized by the
Nepal Government to issue TRC and the new rule is scheduled to come into
force from October 1, 2006. TAAN will charge a minimum amount of money as
administrative and service fee for issuing TRC. As a record of trekkers, TRC
incorporates their personal details, trekking routes, duration, etc. The
provision is introduced in order to upgrade the service standard and for
better management of sustainable mountain tourism development in Nepal.
Trekking without TRC is illegal and subject to charge fines and other
punishments in accordance with the laws of the Nepal Government.

Importance and Necessity of TRC

It is very important to have a kind of monitoring and facilitating system in
place for any sort of outdoor activity that involves physical risk. Trekking
is a major outdoor activity in Nepal's mountain tourism. Given the rugged
physical condition and remoteness of almost all trekking areas of Nepal's
Himalayan mountain region, a record system is very essential that would be
helpful in monitoring the safety and security of trekkers. The past
experiences have shown that difficulties have been faced while carrying out
rescue operations promptly during the times of natural calamities. Because
of lack of proper record system of trekkers, their exact whereabouts and the
information about trekking routes, rescue and search missions used to face
difficulties in spotting the trekkers missing.

The Nepal Government is very serious about implementing TRC as a mechanism
to control all sorts of anomaly, including illegal operations, and ensure
safety and security of trekkers. Therefore, TAAN, as a national tourism
organization working in the field of sustainable mountain tourism in Nepal,
has been entrusted with the responsibility of implementing TRC. As per TAAN'
s proposed hassle-free procedure, TRC is being issued to each and every
trekker traveling only through the registered trekking agencies.

The decision regarding the introduction of TRC is a welcome step taken in
its policies and programmes by the Nepal Government. So, TAAN is in the
process of developing a well-managed and efficient system with nominal
service charge of Nepali rupees 250 (equivalent US$ 3.5 only) to implement
TRC in the open trekking areas of Nepal. TRC is going to be issued from
convenient locations of Kathmandu and Pokhara.

TRC Issuing System

The following considerations have been taken into account in the process of
issuing TRC:

1. All important details of trekkers and trekking routes will be maintained
on a computerized record system that may be useful for safety and security
of trekkers and field-staff.

2. The data generated from the system will be useful to all stakeholders --
tourism organizations, government agencies, diplomatic missions, tour
operators, research institutes, etc.

3. Unauthorized trekking operations will be controlled, thus, resulting into
better management of trekking service and in benefit of all concerned -
trekkers, agencies, field - staff, government, etc. and also occasional
untoward incidents will be better prevented.

4. TAAN will be able to work more in its effort of preservation of natural
and cultural environment in cooperation with local communities. This, in
turn, will enable to promote sustainable tourism.

5. The issue of TRC will be so simplified that it would be prompt and
inexpensive. The convenient TRC counter in Kathmandu will remain open 12
hours a day all the seven days a week round the year. Pokhara counter will
be opened for 9 hours a day. The TRC counters will be located close to the
counters of the National Parks and Conservation Areas.

6. TAAN's Media Centre will have updated information about the conditions of
trails and other relevant insights into the trekking areas. The same
information also will be updated frequently in the TAAN's web page. Some of
the check posts along the trekking routes will be equipped with telephone
services by TAAN.

Appeal

All the concerned government agencies have been requested to provide
required cooperation to TAAN in TRC implementation and monitoring process.
While developing the TRC issuance mechanism, TAAN has made it sure that a
well organized efficient system is developed. Any inconvenience that may
arise due to implementation of this new rule is regretted.

TAAN also asks all concerned stakeholders to help disseminate the
information to potential trekkers to Nepal and other related offices and
agencies.

Thank you for your kind support and cooperation.

For further information, please contact at TAAN Media Centre

P.O. Box: 3612 Ganeshthan, Maligaon, Kathmandu, Nepal

Tel: 977-1-442773, 977-1-4440920, 977-1-4440921, Fax: 977-1-4419245

Email:taan@wlink.com.np; taan@mail.com.np Url: www.taan.org.np

yakshaver

29th August 2006, 02:54 AM

Thanks daras, this is very useful.

toaster56

29th August 2006, 06:49 AM

So, I'm not sure I get this 100%, I am going to Nepal this fall to do some volunteer work in the chitwan region until mid november. Then I was planning on doing the EBC/Gokyo trek on my own. What "papers" will I need in order to be okay?
I can get the park entrance permit while walking from lukla to namche I think, or anywyas, I can't miss the checkpoint I was told. But now I will need to get another paper before getting to lukla?

Someone please simplify this to me please?

Thanks :)

Escher

29th August 2006, 12:52 PM

I think that not being able to simplify the exact requirements is the point. There is conflicting information coming out of Nepal, it is still ambiguous and many of us are waiting to see what happens.

What is clear is that you need a new certificate - the TRC certificate - for a nominal charge of 250nrps to trek anywhere after the 1st October. These will be issued by registered trekking agencies.

What isn't clear is whether you will be able to trek on your own in the areas that you currently can. TAAN are saying that you can ONLY trek with a registered trekking agency in all areas. Whereas NTB are saying that you can still trek independently in Annapurna, Langtang and Khumbu but still need to have the TRC certificate.

They are contradicting each other at the moment but bear in mind that TAAN have a vested financial interest in getting you to trek with them therefore they would say what they are saying to drum up more business.

My personal view (and that is all it is) is that you can still trek independently with a TRC certificate and TAAN are telling lies. If it turns out that that is the case then I think they will do their business and reputation some damage. They have so far not managed to provide an answer to NTB's statement which categorically states that you can trek independently. NTB have no vested reason to state anything but the truth. The jury is still out.

Oli

29th August 2006, 12:55 PM

daras

29th August 2006, 01:43 PM

Hi all,
I start my trek 21 Sep (dep from Poland), so I'm very interested in "new registration fee". As you know I wrote e-mail to TAAN - please see answer a few mails above. I also tried booking hotel and round tickets to Likla - so I wrote a few e-mails to hotels and travel agencies. Please see one of these answers:

::: info/answwer from GARUDA hotel ::: 29.08.2006 :::

TREKKING PERMIT: From Septmeber 23rd, 2006, new regulation will require you
to get trekking permit for Everest. Therefore you cannot fly the next day to
Everest without the permit. For further details log to www.taan.com.np

Please open attachment that has a FAQ which may answer many possible
questions you may have. Also, visit our website http://www.garuda-hotel.com

::: end of GARUDA's answer :::

So I'm still bewildered. Situation is not clear. Ok, I can pay 3,5USD per person for this "registration paper", but when and where ......
I will arrive to KTM 22.09 2pm; next day I would like to fly to Lukla, but what about registration. This new regulation will start one week later, at this time I'll be above Namche Bazaar (I hope ;-) ).
So ..... strange situation.... any sugestion ???

regards
daras

Escher

29th August 2006, 02:28 PM

You have as much information as any of us regarding the TRC, hard to tell you anymore.

However I think you are being really ambitious trying to fly to Lukla the next morning. (even without worrying about the TRC).

If you arrive at 10pm. It will take you 1/2 an hour to an hour to clear the airport and another 1/2 hour to get to Thamel and your hotel. You normally have to be at the domestic airport at 5.30-6.00am for the Lukla flights (even though you might actually fly several hours later).

Even if you have asked the Hotel's agent to book you a flight for the next day, in my experience they are unlikely to do so. They will want to see your passport and for you to handover the money before they will book anything. Even if they promise to book in advance for you they will still wait until they see you in person.

I would think at the earliest you will get a flight for the day after, but it is peak season so you might not even then, the big trekking groups block book all the early flights as they are more likely to get away. The best strategy is to book a flight for the first day that you can get on the first or second flight. If the weather and visibility is poor often the later flights get cancelled but the early ones will go. If you are on a later flight and it is cancelled it is likely that you will be on the later flight the next day and it may get cancelled again. (Of course you may have no problems at all). I've only ever been delayed going to Lukla (in four flights there) when on a later flight.

To sum up - to maximise your chances of flying - book the flight for the first day you can get an early flight (insist to the agent that this is what you want). Getting a later flight for the day after you arrive could result in you being delayed for even longer than if you waited an extra day in Kathmandu. Especially as you want to set off at the tail of the monsoon.

Another factor is a couple of nights at 1400m in Kathmandu, some rest and the opportunity to rehydrate after the long haul flight will be good preparation for flying straight in to 2800m. Tired and thirsty will not!

daras

29th August 2006, 03:04 PM

Thanks Escher,
Probably you're right.
I will have to stay one day in KTM [tickets to Lukla, TRC and some other things].

BTW - I will arrive Sep22 at 2pm [not at 10pm]; anyway I will stay one day in KTM.

Regards
daras

toaster56

30th August 2006, 12:31 AM

Thanks daras. Someone at TAAN sent me this also. I think its a standard response that they are sending out to anyone who asks about TRC. But it didn't really answer my question(s) so I'm continuing to ask for more clarification.

And yes Toaster, this is a bit confusing and disorgansied. The main point is that you'll need an extra bit of paperwork and 'registration' from a TAAN agency. This is in addition to the Park entry ticket and has to be got in Kathmandu before you leave.
The thing that is unclear is whether you'll be expected to hire a guide & porter from that agency - TAAN say you do but NTB say you do not. They'll probably have decided policy by min-Nov, but be aware that the touts will most likely be overstating the requirements for their own commercial gain.

Okay so pretty much any "good" trekking agency should be able to give me the new certificate (for 250r) and I should be able to go alone. and I will get the park entrance fee later on after getting to lukla.

Also, do you get the registration on the spot or they make you wait like a day or so?

One last thing, what do TAAN and NTB stand for?

Thanks

Oli

30th August 2006, 12:50 AM

Okay so pretty much any "good" trekking agency should be able to give me the new certificate (for 250r) and I should be able to go alone.

Hopefully, yes. To be honest we still aren't really sure if independent teahouse trekking is 'allowed' under the new regulations. There are no 'official' statements on what exactly the new rules say, it depends on whether you ask TAAN or NTB.

But, please don't trek "alone". It is always safer on the trails and up in the mountains if you have someone else looking out for you. This is true wherever you may be travelling, abroad or our in your local countryside. But it is especially true when AMS / altitude sickness is a factor - one of the dangers is that ataxia symptom is fairly difficult to self-diagnose.

and I will get the park entrance fee later on after getting to lukla.

Yes, there has been nothing to say that will be any different.

Also, do you get the registration on the spot or they make you wait like a day or so?

That remains to be seen, please let us know how it works out

One last thing, what do TAAN and NTB stand for?

TAAN = Trekking Agency Association of Nepal (http://www.taan.org.np)
NTB = Nepal Tourism Board (http://www.welcomenepal.com/nepal/index.asp)

Thanks

Wel come :)

toaster56

30th August 2006, 01:12 AM

But, please don't trek "alone". It is always safer on the trails and up in the mountains if you have someone else looking out for you. This is true wherever you may be travelling, abroad or our in your local countryside.

TAAN = Trekking Agency Association of Nepal (http://www.taan.org.np)
NTB = Nepal Tourism Board (http://www.ntb.org.uk)

Wel come :)

By alone I meant without a trekking agency, not alone alone :)

I'm guessing most of the trekking agencies have some english speaking personel...?

But I don't see how they could make everyone go through an agency and force everyone to get a guide to go trekking. They would probably end up losing alot of money in the end because I'm guessing alot of people just want to go in a small group (friends, family) and want to experience the trek on their own without having to follow someone all the time. So they have to let the individual trekker get the registration and trek on his own.. Would only make sense.

Oli

31st August 2006, 11:34 PM

I've just had an email from TAAN that says....

Thank you for your query . TRC means the Trekking Registration Certificate.
It is provided only those trekking companies of Nepal which are registered
to Nepal government and renewed in every fiscal year. So it is clear that
only the foreign trekker from authorised trekking agency can get TRC but not
from any licenced or non-licenced guide or any individual. After the
implimentation of TRC no Free Individual trekkers will be allowed to trek in
any trekking area of Nepal. So you can trek in Nepal only through trekking
agency where you can employ one or more of their staff according to your
need.

The important part is "After the implimentation of TRC no Free Individual trekkers will be allowed to trek in any trekking area of Nepal. So you can trek in Nepal only through trekking agency where you can employ one or more of their staff according to your need." This is quite contradictory to NTB advice that "There is no need to take the service of a porter or a guide against your wish especially in areas that have tea houses along the trekking trail."

I've written back to both TAAN & NTB pointing out that they are giving us contradictory advice and that (IMHO) this will be a very bad thing for tourism in Nepal.

thesilvertops

31st August 2006, 11:54 PM

If this is right then Nepal is off our list.

Thank goodness that we have made the best of the last 6 years - 4 trips - 3 months(2000), 3 months(2001), 2 months(2004), 2 months(2006). We will go to Oz or New Zealand instead.

Bunkybest

2nd September 2006, 06:23 PM

http://trekkingpetition.nepal.st

Support the Petition against the ban of individual trekking in Nepal

Please sign this petition if you support independant trekking:)

yakshaver

2nd September 2006, 10:23 PM

http://trekkingpetition.nepal.st

Support the Petition against the ban of individual trekking in Nepal

Please sign this petition if you support independant trekking:)

Thanks, this is a very good initiative.

mieke

3rd September 2006, 12:55 AM

@ yakshaver,

Do you happen to know what on earth is wrong with Ian's messageboard (yetizone)?
I've kept trying to make a post there with a link to the Petition launched from Austria/Germany, but all the board kept saying was that it doesn't accept any http in my message. And there wasn't any: only in the box down below where you should post a URL to make a proper link...

Could you please try if you can make a post on YZ too, with the webaddress of the Petition?

http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/goto.php?section=petition&langid=4

TIA

Oli

3rd September 2006, 06:03 AM

Thanks Bunkybest, I think we all ought to sign that. And Mieke, Ian has real problems with spammers abusing his homebrew message board, but I've managed to post a link to the petition.

mieke

3rd September 2006, 03:28 PM

And Mieke, Ian has real problems with spammers abusing his homebrew message board, but I've managed to post a link to the petition.
Thanks a lot Oli, I just saw it on YZ and the reactions there meanwhile too. I was aware of the strict spam filters Ian uses, so edited as much as I could to meet the filter-demands, but still in vain. Seems you had more luck :-)

As for the topic: the new trekkingrules as of approx. October 1, I was puzzled - if not sad - reading comments of the elderly Canadian lady who posts on Thorn Tree a lot. She's a humanitarian volunteer in Nepal for more than a decade, but also works as a trekkingguide there (guiding groups). And she has always been very understanding, kind and helpful, in so many ways. When the questions and criticism re. this TRC-thing started to appear on TT, she was frustrated and disappointed because in her opinion "we" ought to be glad that the TRC would result in better safety for trekkers. And she reminded of the disappearances in recent years and emphasised that the new rules were also very much intended to secure more safety (avoiding disappearances, activating help and a search-crew much, much sooner).

And I wonder if this is true: if the (media) attention ("bad press") in the past few years when a foreign trekker/tourist went missing, added a lot to this decision about new trekking rules and regulations, the permit, the end of independent trekking and of solo-trekking. The main focus these past weeks, is money (business) for the TAAN-members only. Read f.e. Krishna's new reply on YZ, something he posted on Trekkingforum.com (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38190#post38190) this morning as well. And while "eradicating" any solo trekking would of course influence the chance on a disappearance (due to an accident), I completely fail to discover any solid information. How do the new rules deal with any practical follow-up in the event of accidents, trekkers falling ill, a trekker (or group of them) deciding they want to change their itinerary, and so on? I can't believe that anything that would be invented and introduced to improve safety, could be such a mess still in terms of clear information only a few weeks before it's supposed to start. Instead, the present information-crisis on the TRC seems to chase at least some people away who definitely had Nepal on their itinerary for this autumn...

yakshaver

3rd September 2006, 05:04 PM

Mieke, yes Oli has managed to put the petition upthere. In the future, if you want to post a link, just start from the www.
Don't put the http. I think the link still works, I am not sure...

Cheers
yakshaver

@ yakshaver,

Do you happen to know what on earth is wrong with Ian's messageboard (yetizone)?
I've kept trying to make a post there with a link to the Petition launched from Austria/Germany, but all the board kept saying was that it doesn't accept any http in my message. And there wasn't any: only in the box down below where you should post a URL to make a proper link...

Could you please try if you can make a post on YZ too, with the webaddress of the Petition?

http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/goto.php?section=petition&langid=4

TIA

thesilvertops

3rd September 2006, 05:13 PM

Hi

Krishna has hit the nail on the head. Talking about safety of trekkers, etc., has just been a cover. It's all about cornering the trekking business for TAAN.

What about all the lodges who are going to lose our business. As independent trekkers we have spent 159 nights in lodges on our treks in the last 6 years, plus all those where we have stopped for morning coffee, lunch, etc., All of these lodges employ porters to bring in supplies, and staff for cooking, etc.,

thesilvertops

webmaster

3rd September 2006, 05:13 PM

I've put a link to the petition on the trekinfo home page and the forum home page. It's doubtful that it will accomplish anything with the greedy TAAN people and naive Nepal Tourism Board members, but it's certainly worth a try.

You can also try writing to the Nepal Tourism board at mediacenter@ntb.org.np

Any other suggestions?

yakshaver

3rd September 2006, 05:18 PM

The ramifications of the TRC rules are yet to be played out, and therefore understood, Mieke.
First, there is the issue of which we two disagree, and that is the fact that Nepal is much safer than, say Rome, or London, or Australia for that matter (another 6 foreing tourists have been killed due to criminal activities, or dissapeareed this year, and I have not heared you making any noise, Mieke...). And since these destinations don't have a register for where tourists are going, I don't see why Nepal should.

Even admiting that the TRC will provide a database with tourists identities and whereabouts (and the assumption of quicker response in case of accidents/foulplay etc) there is no detail (as you rightly point out) as to how the actual response to emergencies will be any better than in the past.

But the point is not this. Tourists will put up with the imposition of filling out another set of forms and paying 250 more rupees, which is nothing for the wester tourists. It is the ambiguousness of the statements in regards to trekking without a guide or porter. For the people who want to enjoy the trek in solitude (a fundamental and ancestral freedom of the mountains in every culture) this is a key issue.
Upto this point TAAN has not made this issue clear, despite repeaded pointed and unambiguous questions on the matter.

In the meantime, we'll see how things pan out.
It will not stop me going to Nepal, and I am sure that, like in NZ, Australia, UK, Germany and Austria - I will manage a way to do my own thing with relative disregard to non-sensical laws and rules. Though I am getting older and chose my transgressions more carefully in relation to causing the biggest impact, the anarchical spirit is still alive and kicking.

Thanks a lot Oli, I just saw it on YZ and the reactions there meanwhile too. I was aware of the strict spam filters Ian uses, so edited as much as I could to meet the filter-demands, but still in vain. Seems you had more luck :-)

As for the topic: the new trekkingrules as of approx. October 1, I was puzzled - if not sad - reading comments of the elderly Canadian lady who posts on Thorn Tree a lot. She's a humanitarian volunteer in Nepal for more than a decade, but also works as a trekkingguide there (guiding groups). And she has always been very understanding, kind and helpful, in so many ways. When the questions and criticism re. this TRC-thing started to appear on TT, she was frustrated and disappointed because in her opinion "we" ought to be glad that the TRC would result in better safety for trekkers. And she reminded of the disappearances in recent years and emphasised that the new rules were also very much intended to secure more safety (avoiding disappearances, activating help and a search-crew much, much sooner).

And I wonder if this is true: if the (media) attention ("bad press") in the past few years when a foreign trekker/tourist went missing, added a lot to this decision about new trekking rules and regulations, the permit, the end of independent trekking and of solo-trekking. The main focus these past weeks, is money (business) for the TAAN-members only. Read f.e. Krishna's new reply on YZ, something he posted on Trekkingforum.com (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38190#post38190) this morning as well. And while "eradicating" any solo trekking would of course influence the chance on a disappearance (due to an accident), I completely fail to discover any solid information. How do the new rules deal with any practical follow-up in the event of accidents, trekkers falling ill, a trekker (or group of them) deciding they want to change their itinerary, and so on? I can't believe that anything that would be invented and introduced to improve safety, could be such a mess still in terms of clear information only a few weeks before it's supposed to start. Instead, the present information-crisis on the TRC seems to chase at least some people away who definitely had Nepal on their itinerary for this autumn...

Escher

3rd September 2006, 05:36 PM

My gut feel at the beginning of this seems like it is the way it is going, that it is all about money and the greedy agencies wishing to line their own pockets. I wonder how much Third Pole has influenced this and actually whether their reputation will suffer because of it.

Independent tea house trekking was one of the unique attractions for me of Nepal. It will be a real shame if they ruin it.

Yakshaver you are so rock and roll! Long live anarchy! You already employ a guide and porter for your treks and you know Santaman will sort out all the TRC regs for you. Good luck with avoiding the authorities and your upcoming fugitive status! ;)

Oli

3rd September 2006, 05:52 PM

No problem, Mieke - I work with computers and sometimes the most awkward machines behave themselves if I glare at them in the right way :-/ Unfortunately sometimes the opposite is true :-(

I had considered that TRC was an effort to raise the safety for trekkers. We all know about the sad saga of Gareth Koch and its fair to say that he is less likely to have gone missing if he had not been alone. But there is also a counter argument that people can still die whilst trekking in the company of guides due to inconsiderate itineraries that force individuals in groups to go too high too quickly. The fact is that there are no reliable statistics on this problem (as I'm sure you are well aware). TRC will definitely be a step towards improving this, but how far and whether if it in the right direction remains to be seen.

It seems to me that Krishna's post on YZ is quite correct that the main objective is a move towards a commercial monopoly. They are not giving so much consideration for safety issues or the broader implications for the tourist economy.

Perhaps if the people who have been tasked with improving the regulation and safety for trekkers had bothered to consult with some of the regular and experienced independent trekkers (on this forum and elsewhere) then maybe together we could come up with a more reasonable and workable set of procedures.

I don't know how much we can achieve by debating these changes here and/or by writing emails to TAAN & NTB etc. But considering what a mess TAAN are making of this then I can't see voicing our opinions making things worse. Thanks webmaster for posting that banner up top. It would be nice if all our readers would sign that, even if they don't go to the lengths of engaging TAAN & NTB in an email debate.

Trekwalla

3rd September 2006, 05:57 PM

Read one guides' nonsensical explanation of this silly system. The Nepalis seem to have no idea about how to run a good tourist operation. No wonder the whole country is going down the drain with silly rules and continual arguments between greedy politicians.

http://trekinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3847

Oli

3rd September 2006, 06:06 PM

How about this.....

Assume that TRC is issued by a competent agency who are responsible for overseeing the safety of trekkers and the regulated operations of trekking agencies. Anyone trekking with a TAAN agency (or foreign company subcontracting to TAAN) will be deemed to be covered as long as they are in the company of agency staff.

Issuance of TRC to independent trekkers who wish to trek without agency guides is still possible provided they meet certain criteria. This could include any of these....
- a detailed itinerary, with a plan of expected dates and possible deviations to route
- details of personal insurance polices, with adequate cover for emergency rescue
- must not trek alone, TRC requires at least two individuals, and if Nepali the at least one must be a Certified guide (even if not employed by TAAN agency)
- trekkers must demonstrate knowledge of the intended trek, particularly with a view to safety - eg altitude issues, AMS symptoms, other health matters, weather and avalance risks, etc
- trekkers must attend cultural and safety orientation lectures, eg from KEEP and HRA
- trekkers are registered with their embassy
- a kit inspection to ensure that trekkers have enough warm jumpers & sun cream to stand the extreme conditions
- trekkers sign a disclaimer to confirm they understand that trails can (and invariably do) go uphill as well as down, and in Nepal they are often steep.
- trekkers pay whatever fees and baksheeh are required to cover administrative costs and to make officials 'see reason'

OK, I'm getting a bit flippant towards the end there, but seriously, these suggested requirements would be better than a blanket ban on all independent trekking. Thoughts anyone?

Oli

Escher

3rd September 2006, 06:25 PM

I don't want to sound too resigned but the fatal flaw was handing the setting up of these regulations to TAAN. What you propose sounds reasonable (although I think I would need a porter to carry my extra warm jumpers) but it is obvious this isn't about safety its about money.

TAAN in their wisdom believe that you and I will still go to Nepal and line their pockets as opposed to taking our money elsewhere. It really pees them off that they make no money out of us and they want to fix it. I feel that they aren't going to budge. I think TAAN will win anyway - they will make more money. It is everyone else that will suffer, but why will the agencies care.

You should be commended for trying to suggest an alternative approach but I am sure they will come back with the usual (implied at least): "Mr Oli - we only want to make sure everyone is safe, we understand the mountains and you are a silly westerner who needs bed tea and looking after, else you will hurt yourself."

I know I am being flippant too but there is a pervading attitude by some that westerners are indeed incapable of handling themselves in the hills and need waiting on hand and foot. Perpetuated I am sure by throngs of just these people who do need looking after. Its the repeat trekkers who are so insensed by all this and ones who need the least looking after.

I am thinking along the lines of trekking in a group of 8-10 people and hiring one porter between us and negotiating very hard with the agency that they get a 2% admin fee and the porter gets the rest, or I go elsewhere. You can just hook up with people you meet in KTM/Pokhara and say you are all trekking together when you aren't really. You can then split up on the trail and do what you like. If enough people do that the agencies will make bugger all.

narba

3rd September 2006, 06:47 PM

what does the TAAN collecting money TRC fee? TAAN have any special project to used this money? is the money visiable where it goes? NMA has collected money alot but where it goes? no one know about it? they don't have used the money except big party when the NMA election come. is TAAN also going to follow same rule? can TAAN declear about these question?

Oli

3rd September 2006, 07:01 PM

What you propose sounds reasonable (although I think I would need a porter to carry my extra warm jumpers)

Yes, indeed. And as it happens I am/was thinking about hiring Nepali guys to carry alll my bags of 'stuff' so that I am more able to lug around my hefty camera. ;) But I insist on the option to make that decision for myself.

mieke

3rd September 2006, 07:59 PM

Fyi a Dutch poster here (http://www.prikpagina.nl/read.php?f=309&i=18402&t=18399) (Nepal Prikbord) - someone who lives and works in Kathmandu for many years already - keeps emphasising and explaining that these new rules have indeed a lot to do with fatal accidents and with disappearances of solo foreign trekkers in the past. And in particular - he says - during the past trekkers season of this year (2006). He speaks of a significant number of accidents, in some cases with fatal results. (Myself I know of only one: the German woman. And by the way this man runs an orphanage, no trekking agency).

Also fyi there is a new reply on a German board from someone with friends in Nepal. What he says is that things are now definite as of October: the TRC is mandatory, and so is hiring a guide or porter through a TAAN member and independent trekking will be made impossible. He speaks of the police, the army, all security bodies, city councils, the airports and all checkpoints (particularly in the Annapurnas) that are all authorized to carry out controls on your TRC and your passport.
As for the concerned agencies, he says they have to employ at least one qualified and registered guide or porter, and furthermore it's also a matter of the agencies paying tax to the government of Nepal.
This poster kept a close eye on developments lately and initially kept saying that according to him nothing was clear and definitely decided yet; there was still "hope". Up till this afternoon. He says it's 99,9% sure now that things will go the way TAAN wants them to. You know it's a Sunday in Nepal too, so an ordinary work day and it sounds credible that such decisions are coming nearer and nearer indeed.

Think I'll go check on the 3 English online newspapers once more; see if they have anything to say already on these TRC matters.
Edit: nothing there (Nepal News, The Himalayan Times & eKantipur/The Kathmandu Post).

Edited "for typos and language"

Escher

3rd September 2006, 08:32 PM

Thanks Mieke - that is very interesting information.

I started a thread on UKclimbing.com last week. It doesn't say anything new but I thought I would link it in if any climbers want to add their tuppence worth over there.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=199636

mieke

3rd September 2006, 08:46 PM

Thank you Escher. Basically the same kind of reactions on UK Climbing as elsewhere. Not surprising, of course.
I'll include your link in this Trekkingforum reply (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38209#post38209). It was just a thought, about the need perhaps to start contacting a few of the Nepalese newspapers on these troubles with TAAN's demands, and reactions from trekkers virtually "worldwide". The links make it easy for everyone to take a glance over forumdiscussions elsewhere.

Oli

3rd September 2006, 09:10 PM

Thanks Mieke for those reports from the Dutch & German language boards.

Maybe whoever is pulling the strings have managed to get the NTB to toe the line (excuse the English idiom) and they are about to make the ban on independent trekking official.

I wrote to NTB again a few days ago to point out that TAAN are giving vague and contradicting advice but they've yet to answer. Maybe they are trying to concoct a diplomatic reply that retracts their previous advice.

And I've just written to the Department of Immigration to voice my concerns and to seek some sort of official clarification.

It is fair to assume that the origin of TRC is from concern for safety of trekkers and to prevent mishaps to solo trekkers. I'd like to believe that rather than it's come from a corrupt attempt to monopolise the business. But surely a blanket ban on independent trekking isn't the best solution.

I think I may also compose an email to the Nepalese Embassy in London with a hope that they'll be able to pass some feedback on to the government through channels that are not so tainted by cronyism.

mieke

3rd September 2006, 09:57 PM

How do I effectively and rapidly kill sections of my tourism industry? (http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=62&threadid=1188314&messid=10265183&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=1)

Just another, new, post on Thorn Tree I happen to spot. The OP is clearly a trekkingagent, the 1st reply comes from a woman who is pretty frantically posting similar questions and searching for answers on that WT&M-section of TT. And last night she signed the petition as well...

What was it all those years during the political/military crisis and with the Maoists? Nepal would never accept and it strongly rejected any foreign advice on its internal matters. No one else was capable of judging Nepali affairs, let alone give advice to them.
I guess wisdom and management/marketing experience is something for the rest of the world then...

But that's not the hardest part to swallow. The hardest part is realising that by going along with these new rules, you would probably (even more) be turned into an instrument of sheer corruption. And I hate thinking that the deaths or disappearances of a number of foreign trekkers should be seen as an opportunity for a certain shrewd "elite" to make financial profit from such past tragedies. For where the f*ck were the TAAN and the NTB every time relatives needed advice, and support, and help? They were absolutely nowhere: sort it all out yourselves! And now I'm supposed to believe and trust that will all greatly improve against a fee of NR 250 for a TRC, while many voices from Nepal keep maintaining that competition in the tourism industry is murderous, and profits are absolutely marginal?
Dream on, Nepal...

edited for English

Escher

3rd September 2006, 10:28 PM

Mieke, don't you think the frustration displayed in your last post is a little misplaced? This TRC stuff has no bearing on you whatsoever (unless you are planning to visit) so what are you getting all hot under the collar for? I can see why you enjoy joining in and helping out collecting information by surfing around the different forums (I am grateful for your help - especially in translating German) but is the anger you are displaying really justified? Guides and trekking agencies have been using the safety card for years to drum up business, it is nothing new. It annoys me too but because I like to travel independently and I don't think it is right but it does affect me personally. It is really not good for your health to get so wound up by other people's plights, there are many more personal things for you to put your extensive energies into surely? This is not meant as a dig at you personally, but rants on the subject seem a little misplaced don't you think? I hope you take this is the manner it is intended, I mean no offence.

Oli

3rd September 2006, 11:29 PM

I have to say that I do value Mieke's input here. Most of us are concerned about the "what does this mean to me?" and "how much extra will it cost me?" questions, which are fair enough for paying consumers. But more important than the financial implications for either side are the potential improvements that can be made to safety. And I believe that Mieke is genuinely concerned by the welfare of trekkers, even if she is not one herself, having been involved in the aftermath of the Gareth Koch tragedy.

So lets not get to worked up, selfish or start bickering. Lets stay focused on the important matters under discussion. Assuming that TRC is inevitable, how can we help maximise the improvements to personal safety, preferably without unreasonable detrimental effects on the freedoms of trekkers. TAAN, to their credit, propose to require and regiment a system whereby all trekkers are properly registered, along with itineraries etc. We should ask ourselves (and then tell TAAN/NTB) how we can work to facilitate that?

We trekkers are the very people that Nepalis would like (or need) to sustain their tourist industry, some of us are experienced trekkers both in Nepal and elsewhere around the world. They really ought to listen to our needs and suggestion. So lets form a 'Think Tank' and see if we can draw up some parameters whereby TRC can most effectively track trekkers itineraries and how best safeguards can be in place to activate search and rescue contingencies should the need arise.

[edit: please see my post #31 (http://www.trekinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3746&page=4) at the top of the last page for suggestions on initial registration requirements. Also I read elsewhere that trekkers in Canada are required (by law?) to register their due date of return and if they fail to check in and that negligence raises a search then are severly penalised (or something along those lines) - that sounds like a very good idea]

mieke

4th September 2006, 12:34 AM

Thank you both, Escher and Oli, for your reactions to my latest reply. Though your replies were quite different, they are both valuable. So here are a few comments.

I don't agree that people would primarily always be concerned about their own, personal interests. And I don't agree that if a situation is no direct concern of theirs, they should refrain from giving an opinion, thoughts, anything. Don't forget that often the ones new to an environment or inexperienced in certain matters, can make valuable observations or ask intriguing questions that those to whom it's all familiar, could never do.

Re. exploiting past tragedies, and how TAAN now intends to make trekking more safe.
I think nobody should forget that Gareth, in February 2004, néver came to Nepal to trek the Khumbu on his own. On the contrary, he was in the company of a much older and much more experienced, British, colleague (who in the end rather walked out on him and returned home several days earlier than planned). It was also Gareth's serious aim to start working in "mountain rescue", and I think that it's safe to assume he knew about a lot of risks in the high mountains in general. But what happened? Well, nobody knows for sure but what is clear, is that he and his partner had rather a terrible row on more than one occasion shortly after arriving in the Khumbu. And they split up. The first few days he teamed up with other trekkers all the time, and on the very first day there were no other trekkers to team up with, he vanished.
How are qualified and registered TAAN-guides going to deal with that scenario? Trekkers refusing to stay in eachother's company any longer? I mean it's not like a holiday to Spain by touringcar, where you can swap seats or go to a different part of the beach. But it is a reality: difference of opinion, arguments, wanting to separate from your (trekking)partner during a holiday.

In March of this year a German trekker (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5819) went missing in Nepal. Also due to the political circumstances in the country, a disappearance that was discovered only very late. I'll be the first to admit that both the trekker and a close relative were generally rather "untogether" in their communications, so there were virtually no data on where she could have gone. But she passed Monjo, and she spent two nights in Namche yet left no record in both places. The lodgeowner says (and I have no reason not to believe him) that he handed the Trekker Intention Book over to her, yet she chose not to make an entry. This fact added to the time it took to establish that she had indeed made the trek up to Namche, from where either Gokyo or EBC would have been her destination.
What I don't hear anybody mentioning these past weeks re. the TRC (but maybe that's my fault), is the Namche Youth Group and what its members managed to accomplish in finding traces and possessions even of the missing woman. But they did! They managed to do something imo very exceptional: in the end they got all the lodge owners of Namche Bazaar together, showed them photos, discussed the "case", and that way enabled one of the lodgeowners to come forward.
Why do you need a TRC and a whole organisation of mandatory trekking with registered guides and also checkpoints and controls and Lord knows what other bureaucratic stuff, if you could instead simply agree that any "lone" trekker (or group of them) that refuses to sign an instrument like a mealorderbook or a TIB, will be strongly pushed to do so? Face thém with possible fines or imprisonment (as they legally seem to exist already in Nepal for high-altitude trekkers who don't abide the rules), but leave the rest of the business alone! Why do you need this new circus, if Nepali communities like the one in Namche would be capable themselves of managing a control-system re. a trekker's whereabouts, and organising searches if they become necessary?

In June of this year a Dutch trekker (http://www.fjellforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=5602&start=0) disappeared in a mountaineous region of Norway. In spite of the existing Norwegian Mountain Code (http://www.fjellforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=5696) (an interesting read, by the way) she did trek solo and at the mountainhut where she spent the night she left no information re. her destination for that day. That was wrong, and an intensive and long lasting search was the result. But it's the staff at the hut too who let her leave that way: with a questionmark for "next destination" in a book comparable to a Trekker Intention Book. The media coverage in Norway for this missing tourist case, was absolutely extensive for weeks and weeks on. Also because the police needed eye-witnesses or people whom she might have told her plans. Two weeks ago the case was solved with her body being found; she had drowned. But do you think that the Norwegian government or its Turistforeningen will now introduce new laws that say trekkers always need to be accompanied by a qualified and registered guide? No.

Don't worry: I'm aware it's where all other mountains "end", that the Himalayas only start, in terms of altitude... But I think it's the principle. Nepal, to the best of my knowledge, has shown only very little concern for lost trekkers the past many years (unless you were a US national, but imho that's to do with the commitment of the US Embassy in Ktm in such cases). And instead of simply trying to improve and enforce existing safety-methods and rules and encourage the development of local initiatives in that respect, it seems they have now decided to take each and every trekker in a kind of iron grip... Isn't that "overreacting"?

Escher

4th September 2006, 12:59 AM

Ok - fair enough. Apologies to you Mieke. I think what I was trying to say was please tone it down a little. You are not wrong to worry about things other than your direct experience, we all do to a greater or lesser extent and it was not that that I took exception to. It was the anger behind that seemed so borne of frustration which I found a little hard to understand how it was founded. I am sure you see where I am coming from.

Being constructive, as Oli suggests is the only way we might achieve something. But my cynicism really thinks that this is futile. The safety issue is a smoke screen for monopolising the industry. But nothing ventured nothing gained.

I think to make the logging of trekking routes so prescriptive and the insistence on only trekking set itineraries is just too claustrophobic. More rigid enforcement of signing in and out of places like Namche may be better, in addition to the Trekkers intention book scheme. Perhaps with the addition of an expected time of arrival back within a number of days. (To say I will be back on day x is too rigid - maybe "I will be back within 3 days of a certain date is better). I think the collection of information would help with finding out where someone has been but to start to employ penalties for not doing so or for not going or being where you said you would is starting to make the whole process like a guided tour.

To be frank, anything more rigid than that is a complete anathema to me. These are the mountains and some of us seek adventure there. I mean no disrepect to the families that have suffered terrible loss and uncertainty due to the disappearance of their loved ones but anything more stringent is a complete afront to the freedom and adventure I seek in the hills and I would rather go somewhere else. It is a "sledge hammer to crack a nut" approach to try to limit unfortunate mishaps of the few, where the majority pass through without any incident. This is not an environment where safety procedures should encroach on the experience, after all the risk and excitement is why many of us go there. This is the essence of these places. And with places like this there is therefore an inherent risk and there must be some sort of acceptance that not every eventuality can be dealt with.

I am not keen to employ a guide or porter in certain situations. I am also not keen to put in writing when and where I will be every step of the way and to be penalised if I don't follow that plan.

I am in absolute agreement with you Mieke the Nepali authorities are overreacting and I believe it is borne of profits and not concern for anyone's safety.

I am sorry that this post is mostly negative and doesn't really propose any solutions. IMO collecting information is the way to go and then using it quickly when necessary. But to penalise anyone for not recording the right information or for not sticking to a set itinerary is a step too far. We should be responsible for ourselves and not all be accountable for those regrettable but fortunately rare incidents when things gone seriously awry.

mieke

4th September 2006, 02:46 AM

Ok - fair enough. Apologies to you Mieke. I think what I was trying to say was please tone it down a little. You are not wrong to worry about things other than your direct experience, we all do to a greater or lesser extent and it was not that that I took exception to. It was the anger behind that seemed so borne of frustration which I found a little hard to understand how it was founded. I am sure you see where I am coming from.
Apologies to yóu, Escher. You were right about anger, and frustration, but I will tone down. After all, that anger and frustration were built up over considerable time, nothing to do with the TRC now or with Trekinfo and also nothing to do with other foreign Nepal trekkers.
I think I fully understand what you said about "no disrespect", and about adventure, freedom and the claustrophobia of the upcoming new rules. I don't want to mention any names of trekkers here, simply in order to escape the Google-bots. But thinking about the trekkers who I know went missing in Nepal in recent years, it's so obvious that they tóó cherished this adventure, this freedom to go where they (suddenly) wanted to, experiencing nature, everything: but not hand-in-hand with a trekkingguide. And although the consequences for their relatives are indeed enormous and impossible for us to understand or describe, it somehow feels "injust" that their disappearance or death would now be the excuse, the tool to deny other trekkers - including the ones going with a partner or even teaming up in groups - to experience that freedom and adventure the way théy prefer.

It's simply so that I experience the magnitude of nature more intense, more impressive, more satisfying when I am alone. Somehow, the presence of a group creates a transparant shell between me and the surroundings. Being alone up there makes me feeling truly alive, truly happy.

source: sam on Fjellforum (http://www.fjellforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=45796&highlight=#45796)
There múst be ways, solutions, to find a compromise between dangerous or even irresponsible behaviour/situations, and this cage that TAAN now wants to lock all of you in.

I am sorry that this post is mostly negative and doesn't really propose any solutions. IMO collecting information is the way to go and then using it quickly when necessary. But to penalise anyone for not recording the right information or for not sticking to a set itinerary is a step too far. We should be responsible for ourselves and not all be accountable for those regrettable but fortunately rare incidents when things gone seriously awry.
It doesn't really look like TAAN, NTB and the Nepali Government will be prepared to consider solutions coming from foreign trekkers, does it? There is a lot of money involved for them, and isn't this about the difference between sheeple and adventurers? In terms of numbers, there may just be more "sheeple" among the foreign trekkers and therefore enough cashflow still.
On the other hand: it's all about Nepal. Doesn't history prove that its governments can be full of surprises? So how about looking on the bright side and not giving up your hopes yet... :-)

Oli

4th September 2006, 02:56 AM

I think I may also compose an email to the Nepalese Embassy in London with a hope that they'll be able to pass some feedback....

Apparently (TAAN source (http://www.taan.org.np/news_details1.php?nid=301&PHPSESSID=aa38ba6cb9b864c7b01b9301a1fa2aa8)) the embassy has recently hosted a seminar to encourage British travel operators to promote tourism in Nepal. From the report it sounds like the emphasis was on the recent improvements in political stability, there is no mention of TRC. Whilst I would expect that UK tour agencies would cautiously welcome the extra business they may get I doubt that Alan Hinkes would be so pleased to know that his freedom to roam may be curtailed. Probably there are readers of the Express and Independent newspapers who are hoping to visit Nepal but are unaware of these new developments, so will have to write to inform them as well....

jwharper

4th September 2006, 03:37 AM

mieke

4th September 2006, 03:52 AM

It looks like our old friend Mieke (who has never been to Nepal) has made so much noise that the Nepalis are using her hysteria as an excuse to implement this nonsense rule - which will not save anyone from falling off the trail.

Mieke please go away! Or visit Nepal and learn that there are not a bunch of people running around waiting to push you to your death.

As for your last command: never (go away).
As for your insinuation about trekkers being deliberately pushed off a high trail: interesting, and please continue.

As for making noise: I do recall that back in May I helped "making noise" indeed in order to support the relative of a lost trekker. A relative who had to go and "search Nepal" virtually all by herself. It's a big country, and it was the media in Nepal that effectively made "the noise". And yes, I'm still convinced it helped a lot...

There would be no need to make noise if the Nepali authorities and its tourism (trekking) industry Edit: and a couple of its W-European Embassies would have taken their responsibilities in this field in many previous years. But alas, they did not... Up till now? Who knows.

Edited to include Embassies in view of responsibilities

yakshaver

4th September 2006, 09:30 AM

OK, I got some explanation from someone I trust, in their interpretation of TAAN's intent with the TRC business...

TAAN is only the administrator of TRC. They don't keep the money. The government (or some Government agency) gets the 250 rupees. TAAN have received the licence get everyone endoresed by a TAAN approved agency OBTAIN the TRC.

If the intent would be to just collect the money, and by the way maybe get some business of the people who pass through the doors of a TAAN registered agency - well, they would be primarily tax collectors, with some opportunity for business... However, from what Raj has wrote to me below, it seems that TAAN agencies will only issue the TRC rights to people who'll also buy some business from them. This appears clear enough from the statement below.

At this stage I am making no value judgment, as I need to process all the variables which could enter into this. And there are many. First there are the legal aspects, but this is not so important in Nepal, or to me personally. Then there are logistical aspects etc, already mentioned by people on this forum. And many other things. How is it going to be implemented? And the most important thing: what effect will it have on the number of trekkers in Nepal, and their satisfaction with the experience, which will again influence the number of trekkers in the following season etc... The effect on the trekking industry, most importantly the independent guides and porters.

The intent is clear: TAAN hopes to be able to sell some services (guide, porter, or maybe even just porter) to every tourist who wishes to trek in Nepal. Let's face this fact to start with. Here's the text published to a direct question (YES or NO on idependent trekkers having to employ resources in exchange of getting right from TAAN registered agencies) asked by me on the yetizone forum. You can see the original there... Here's the reply, from someone I trust, in their interpretation of TAAN's intent, simply copy-pasted as is.

""""Deniel,

Thanks for the question !!

TAAN is only the implementing agency. TRC will be given if one goes through the registered trekking agency. TAAN doesn't concern whether the trekkers buy full board package or hire only Guide / Porter from the agency they come through.

But , none of the trekking agencies can recommend for the TRC until and unless he/she buy the service from them. Because it's the matter of business; agency has to pay the tax to the government. If some one sales only TRC @ 250 he will have only a burden of tax. No agency is free form the tax.

Another thing is that check posts will verify the name of the trekking agency and ID card of the employed Guide, Porter and other necessary staffs member.

Hope you understand it.

Raj"""

Trekwalla

4th September 2006, 11:08 AM

TAAN is only the implementing agency. TRC will be given if one goes through the registered trekking agency. TAAN doesn't concern whether the trekkers buy full board package or hire only Guide / Porter from the agency they come through.

But , none of the trekking agencies can recommend for the TRC until and unless he/she buy the service from them. Because it's the matter of business; agency has to pay the tax to the government. If some one sales only TRC @ 250 he will have only a burden of tax. No agency is free form the tax.

Another thing is that check posts will verify the name of the trekking agency and ID card of the employed Guide, Porter and other necessary staffs member.
Raj"""

So it's simple: Some small trekking companies will sell the permit for Rs 300+ and make a small profit on it. Many companies will do this and will make a decent amount of income from this scheme. Now the question is the issue of checkposts checking ID cards of porters and guides. This is a potential nightmare, but it should be easy to bypass. First, there is no such thing as a porter ID card. Second, just tell the cops "my guide went ahead to arrange the hotel" and they cannot prove you don't have a guide with ID card. Third, it's always possible to say "here's 100 rupees, just let me through."

The whole thing is insane, really, and is going to be at least as much hassel for porters and guides as it is for trekkers and will contribute to corruption and delays for no reason. Maybe the "donations" to the maoists will give them the incentive to drive the ID checking cops out of the hills.

jwharper

4th September 2006, 11:19 AM

Mieke - since you refuse to go away, here is a new heartbreaking cause for you to get involved in.

http://tinyurl.com/r89ql

Oli

4th September 2006, 02:18 PM

jwharper: Please do not make personal attacks against other posters on this forum. Regardless of how right/wrong you think peoples opinions are they are entitled to express themselves. If you do not have anything constructive to add to this debate then please shut up and don't pollute the thread by posting useless crap. And did you really register on this forum just so that you can post vitriolic comments against Mieke? That is very sad, maybe it is you who should go away. I hope that your next post will be more reasonable, if not then please don't bother.

edit: on reflection I'd like to apologise to all our readers, earlier in this thread I said we should stay calm and focused, but when I posted this it was a Moanday morning and I was getting wound up. Sorry. Don't feed the trolls

Oli

5th September 2006, 04:55 AM

Joint TRC Policy Formulation Taskforce Formed
TAAN press release 29/08/2006 (http://www.taan.org.np/news_details1.php?nid=297)

A five-member joint Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) policy formulation taskforce has been formed under Mr. K. N. Dhakal, Under-Secretary at the Tourism Industry Administration Division at the Ministry of Culture, Tourism and Civil Aviation (MoCTCA), as coordinator.
Other members of the taskforce include Mr. Deepak Mahat, Immediate Past President of Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN) and Mr. Mohan Lamsal, TAAN’s Treasurer, and one representative each from Nepal Tourism Board (NTB) and the Department of Immigration.
The taskforce will work on policy matters and mechanism concerning TRC implementation and submit its report to the government soon. “We are working on issues to be included in the rules and regulations in order to make TRC implementation more effective,” said Mr. Mahat.
The report will include provisions for the government to supervise and monitor the implementation of TRC and take action against those violating the rules.

These are the people who are responsible for TRC. Interesting to read that they are still working on policy and implementation mechanism. Maybe there is scope for them to reconsider our opinions, but not long left before things are supposed to come into effect.

Oli

5th September 2006, 05:03 AM

Cosmo

5th September 2006, 11:26 AM

Just to add to feedback from Nepal - I emailed the independent guide that I have been corresponding with for a couple of years (due to us cancelling our original trip)
I sent him a brief one saying will it still be possible for him to guide independently for us in February 2007 and this was his response today:

TRC is making us trouble but talk is going on by the
our union and TAAN so i hope it will be sort out very
soon.if not then we have to pay(free lines guide} US$5
per day to the trekking agency to certify that i m
link with them.
i m still hope that i can do the trekking job
continiusly and ofcourse with you too.

Interesting?!

Spaceman347

5th September 2006, 12:59 PM

Thanks cosmo, that's quite interesting.

I looked up the definition of "pimp";

a person, esp. a man, who solicits customers for a prostitute or a brothel, usually in return for a share of the earnings; pander; procurer.

now if we alter that definition slightly;

a person, esp. a TAAN approved trekking agency, who solicits customers for a guide or a porter, usually in return for a share of the earnings; pander; procurer.

Oli

5th September 2006, 03:40 PM

Thanks Cosmos. That is indeed very interesting.

So it seems that TAAN agencies are prepared to validate otherwise independent guides for the princely sum of $5/day. That's quite a lot of money for a middleman sitting in Kathmandu. Can we please enquire as to what proportion of your guide's income that is - maybe between 25% and 50%?

And what would you get for that money? Just the ability to obtain TRC? Would you get access extra support services, and if so what exactly?

And I'm also interested to hear about this trade union for independent guides - I assume that their members would have a Govt issued certificate of competencey to work as a professional guide but not be affiliated with the TAAN monopoly. I am very interested to hear what they think about TRC. Maybe we can compare notes with them to further advise TAAN on how best to implement TRC with suitable provisions to accomodate interests of groups that are not TAAN members.

And yes Spaceman, it does sound like TAAN agencies are already pimping their services, surely this would undermine the whole purpose of TRC. Good that they are prepared to be flexible, but not necessarily so if it is mostly to garner extra commission.

Spaceman347

5th September 2006, 04:09 PM

I hate the concept of the "middleman", even at home I go out of my way to employ local, independant trades people (electricians, plumbers, etc) rather than using big companies.

Your right Oli, it is a good thing that the independant guides/porters aren't being shut out altogether (if this really is the case), but it's just wrong that they (we?) are being "taxed" in such a manner.

Still, it's not about the money, well not for me anyway. As I said before if this whole thing goes ahead I will still visit, I'll just use the situation and head to places like Kanchenjunga etc.

You never know, this could serve to really open up the options by causing people to push further afield and open up new trekking areas?? (Hey I'm trying to be positive here, I only just discovered Nepal and I'm not ready to let go of the place yet)

Oli

5th September 2006, 08:22 PM

Breaking news (http://www.taan.org.np/news_details1.php?nid=303) (according to TAAN)

We've read the main text already from emails posted out by TAAN to individuals (eg here (http://www.trekinfo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20832&postcount=6) & here (http://www.yetizone.com/wwwboard/messages/49810.shtml)), but there seems to be a new clause that I've not seen before.....

However, foreign guests visiting Nepal at the invitation of the Nepal Government, foreign officials, who deserve facilities as diplomats, and other foreign nationals working for development projects in Nepal, do not need to obtain TRC if they are not visiting the trekking areas as trekkers. But they must possess supportive documents and show them to the concerned officials at the check posts.

Sharon

5th September 2006, 11:07 PM

I had assumed that for those of us such as yakshaver and myself who use guides anyways that it would work out. Right now my guide gets insurance from an agency as well as the permits for Rolawaling etc. I am a bit disgusted at the sum of $5 a day. That money is no doubt affordable to me but I cannot live with it going to some business man sitting in Kathmandu. The whole reason I negoatiate independantly of the trekking companies is to see more money in the ordinary Nepali pockets where it is needed.

Sharon

6th September 2006, 01:51 AM

I tried to email TAAN but their mail box was full and my mail bounced back.

Oli

6th September 2006, 03:16 AM

I tried to email TAAN but their mail box was full and my mail bounced back.

Crap isn't it. I had 3 consecutive bounces before I asked Raj to help me get in touch. Try emailing Deepak via Thirdpole at thirdpole@wlink.com.np

yakshaver

6th September 2006, 04:58 AM

Sorry Yakshaver, I saw your post in the other forum & missed this one above, but for the record I'll respond again here. I've not met Raj personally, but have noticed his helpful contributions over the years. I believe he has better intentions than the organisation that represents his agency.

So now TAAN are getting bad perss they are trying to say "don't blame us, it's not our fault". Well according to their press releases (so far the only semi-authoritative information) it was their idea in the first place.

And although they won't profit from the 250NRs (I fail to see how that token sum can cover the expensive administration required to implement all these extra administrative record keeping duties required by TRC), they most certainly will profit from the extra revenue generated by requiring us to employ their guide services even if they are required to hand over a chunk of profit that to the government as tax.

Oli,
I am not implying that Raj is dis-interested in how this will pan out, and I am sure you dont' mean that. After all he is employed by one of the premier Nepali agencies in KTM - which stands to benefit (or lose a lot, depending on your prediction on how things will develop...) from the way the new rules are implemented.

I am with you in saying that if Raj is telling me somthing about the way TAAN intends to implement this, I can trust that. He's close to the action. I make no value judgment wether it is right or wrong, just that what he's saying to me is correct. Meaning TAAN agencies will try to see if they can make as much money as possible, and as much as the market will allow... And this is the crux, if indeed these TRC rules stay in place, with all their present ambiguity in terms of the "real" TAAN agency involvement...

Veebs, on the other forum makes the same prediction as some people on this forum started talking about:
That ultimately TAAN registered agencies will collect a middle-man fees (maybe under the guise of providing some small services). What the size of that fee will be, might be ultimately determined by the way tourists behave. Independent trekkers (and here I mean trekkers who do not employ the services of a registered agency, doesn't matter if they employ an independent guide/porter or not along the trek...) are a fairly hardy and resourceful bunch, who are tough negotiators. They have the confindence of organising most stuff themselves, and therfore will have some say in the whole matter. IF the TRC rule stands, TAAN agencies may decide that a little bit of money is better than no money at all, and may just charge a nominal fee from people who just want to trek by themselves or make their own arrengement in regards to guide and porter.

And the good independent guides will of course gain the protection of an umbrella agency, continuing to do what they yave done in the past. That is doing their own thing, negotiating directly with potential trekkers etc.

Anyway, let's wait and see.

Cosmo

6th September 2006, 10:40 AM

Oli, following on from your reply to my posting, I have just sent off an email with the good questions you raised (hitting the nail right on the head) and will post when I get the reply - usually a few days. I have asked the following and await the replies with great interest! Will post them when received.
I would be interested to hear what you think will happen if the TRC goes ahead? What do you think it will mean for the independent guide and the trekker?
For this $5 per day charge will it be just a way of making the independent guide raise money for the middle man (TAAN) only or will it also give you as a guide (and the treker you work with) access to extra support services, and if so what could that be?
Please tell me about this trade union for independent guides - Do the members have a government issued certificate of competencey to work as a professional guide but not be affiliated with the TAAN monopoly? Or is it again just a case of you having to pay money to be a member but you dont receive benefit?
What do you and other independent guides that you talk to think about about TRC? Will you benefit at all?

trekmore

11th September 2006, 03:16 AM

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has heard of any updates. I'm fine on the permit, I used the WCAP permit system last time I was there. I don't find it anymore of a burden then a sign-in at a trailhead -- should I get lost I hoped it would help. However I am interested in the guide/porter rule.

I find it most interesting that ALL the "official" notifications about the permit system that I've seen have absolutely no mention of the guide/porter rule. They say the permit is easy to get and mention offices that you can get it from (not just agencies). The only time I see mention of the porter/guide rule, it seems to be coming exclusively from people associated with the agencies, especially on LP, where apparently agency marketing people can freely post.

While I understand that the situation presents an excellent marketing opportunity for trekking agencies, and that the trekking industry has been thoroughly trashed by the political situation, I can't help but question whether this method will help their business. (I for one, will be off to India this year, after trying to get clear info.)

If the info about guides and porters is legit, then the all powerful trekking cabal should insist that the government itself or the NTP make an announcement, seeing how their own independent insistence on these rules looks rather suspect given the fact that there is NO written notice of this ANYWHERE that I have seen.

Can someone update me on the fate of ACAP? I thought they were a great organization last time I visited. Thanks!

Boulia

11th September 2006, 12:47 PM

This is a section from the latest NTB Newsletter. It contradicted their previous advice to me so I emailed again(as many many peolpe have done). This time NTB responded that they had passed my email to TAAN as the most approrpriate body to answer.

"TRC to be implemented from October 1

Trekking Agents Association of Nepal(TAAN) is going to introduce Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) from October 1, 2006 as per the mandate given by the Government of Nepal which has made it mandatory for all trekkers to go on trekking in various parts of the country only through registered trekking agencies after having a Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) from Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN). It was disclosed in a press conference organised by TAAN in Kathmandu on September 8, 2006. TAAN will charge Nepalese Rs. 250/ as administrative and service fee for issuing TRC in the open trekking areas. TRC is not required for trekking in restricted areas such as Dolpa, Upper Mustang. As a record of trekkers, TRC incorporates their personal details, trekking routes, duration, etc. The provision is introduced in order to upgrade the service standard and for better management of sustainable mountain tourism development in Nepal, says TAAN. Trekking without TRC is illegal and subject to charge fines and other punishments in accordance with the laws of the Nepal Government.

As per new regulation, no trekker is allowed to go to trekking areas without taking service of a registered trekking agency of Nepal. TRC is being issued to each and every trekker traveling only through the registered trekking agencies. TRC is going to be issued from convenient locations of Kathmandu and Pokhara which will remain open 10 hours a day all the seven days a week round the year"

biggiraffe

11th September 2006, 03:43 PM

I see no precise wording saying that a trekker has to have with him/her a guide or porter:

mandatory for all trekkers to go on trekking in various parts of the country only through registered trekking agencies after having a Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) from Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN).

I see it as something that will be negociable with an agent that issues a TRC. Nowhere does it specificaly say that it is illegal to trek alone, only that it is illegal to trek without a TRC.

I arrive in KTM on the 15 Sept and will inform of any findings.

Oli

11th September 2006, 04:07 PM

From a ThornTree thread (http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=16&threadid=1188311&messid=10265156&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=1) post #7 by stilltrekkin (http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/tombstone.cfm?ProfileID=252760)

I'm now back in Nepal and have made inquiries into this whole question of the TRC. I met this morning with one of the implementation committee members. Confirmed date for implementation is Oct. 1. Anyone interested in more info regarding the requirements may want to have a look at the Trekking Agent's Association of Nepal (TAAN) website. This is the group that has been given the task of implementing and managing the TRC system. Confirmed cost is 250 rupees per person for the Certificate that must be issued through a Trekking Company. There is no "grandfathering" of the rules....hence, anyone beginning their trek prior to october 1st will not be affected. Independent Guides will be required to work through a Trekking Company to acquire permits for their clients - whether or not they will be able to do this, no doubt, will depend on the cooperation of their contacts in the industry. I'm told that many Guides, previously working independently have already contacted one or more companies in an effort to make a "deal" to work through their organization. So far I have found no indication that trekkers (solo or groups) will be able to travel without taking a Guide - or at least a Porter, hired through a trekking company. Up until Oct 1, the Everest Trek, Annapurna treks and Langtang/Helambu treks were considered open areas for independent trekking (although it was not encouraged). After Oct 1, all trekking areas in Nepal, it appears will only be accessible to individuals and groups making arrangements through a registered company. This is similar to Tibet treks & tours, many areas of Sikkim and all of Bhutan.
Not all trekking companies, even those who are members of TAAN, are in favour of these changes....however they have no choice but to comply with the new regulations. TAAN was not asked to approve the changes - simply find an efficient way to implement them.
It is hoped that improved industry standards and safety will be a product of these controls.
A Press Conference is apparently planned within the next week to formally annouce the changes and make all details public.

Sujoy

11th September 2006, 05:15 PM

I wonder what will constitute a trek which will need a porter or guide.

For example, if one flies from Pokhara to Jomosom walks to Marpha spends two days there and comes back to Pokhara by air will the TRC apply?

Or if I walk from Pokhara to Ghandrung to see the view and then come back without doing the Annapurna sanctuary or Poon Hill what will happen?

Guess we got to wait for Oct 1 and see!

webmaster

12th September 2006, 02:15 AM

Here is the press release from Nepal Touirism board

Trekking Agents Association of Nepal(TAAN) is going to introduce Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) from October 1, 2006 as per the mandate given by the Government of Nepal which has made it mandatory for all trekkers to go on trekking in various parts of the country only through registered trekking agencies after having a Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) from Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN). It was disclosed in a press conference organised by TAAN in Kathmandu on September 8, 2006. TAAN will charge Nepalese Rs. 250/ as administrative and service fee for issuing TRC in the open trekking areas. TRC is not required for trekking in restricted areas such as Dolpa, Upper Mustang. As a record of trekkers, TRC incorporates their personal details, trekking routes, duration, etc. The provision is introduced in order to upgrade the service standard and for better management of sustainable mountain tourism development in Nepal, says TAAN. Trekking without TRC is illegal and subject to charge fines and other punishments in accordance with the laws of the Nepal Government.

As per new regulation, no trekker is allowed to go to trekking areas without taking service of a registered trekking agency of Nepal. TRC is being issued to each and every trekker traveling only through the registered trekking agencies. TRC is going to be issued from convenient locations of Kathmandu and Pokhara which will remain open 10 hours a day all the seven days a week round the year.

Oli

12th September 2006, 04:42 AM

"TRC is not required for trekking in restricted areas such as Dolpa, Upper Mustang. As a record of trekkers, TRC incorporates..."

So much for a complete list of all trekkers in Nepal, remember that was part of the safety and statistical benefits of the TRC register. So it's TRC for the main tourist drag (Annapurna, Khumbu, Langtang etc) and (presumably) no change for areas where permits have always been required (Dolpo, Upper Mustang, Kanchenjunga). Apparently TAAN are only concerned with the most profitable aspects of their industry.

They will check for TRC at the airport so you can't fly to Jomsom, and they'll check a the roadheads so you can't walk from Nayapul to Ghandruk. Possibly you could walk to Begnas Tal, or maybe they'll have a TRC checkpoint on Sarangkot.

It would be nice to have a list/map of which areas are subject to which set of rules and restrictions, and if there is anywhere that we can walk in Nepal without having to deal with TAAN.

narba

12th September 2006, 08:53 AM

now TAAN is running by mafiyagoup I agree with some one discribe at yetizone so they make decision to make TRC fee for tourist, but NTB didnot say indivisul tourist doesn't go without guide/porters. it seems TAAN want make money collecting TRC fee by force, I read all information at yetizone and trekinfo. what TAAN posted but these people belong with TREKKING agency but no tourism board. what is the openion of tourism board about the TRC? can NTB reply these question?

Oli

16th September 2006, 04:33 PM

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.

:p (http://www.taan.org.np/)

Landfall38

18th September 2006, 07:59 AM

Also I read elsewhere that trekkers in Canada are required (by law?) to register their due date of return and if they fail to check in and that negligence raises a search then are severly penalised (or something along those lines) - that sounds like a very good idea]

Oli, I am not sure where you heard this about "registering" in Canada. As a Canadian backpacker here in B.C., I've not seen this. No law out here in BC. Indeed, it is still a matter of debate whether to charge for rescues (something which at times certainly seems appropriate ... but not always).

On the TRC topic: Currently "planning" my 7th trip to Nepal (in 2007) -- hopefully the TRC will be sorted out by then (sorry for folks going during the Fall 2006 confusion -- on the other hand, you're all lucky just to be there!).

Perhaps lodge owners will find this hurts them (more people siphoned off to tenting?) and rebel? [Like when the Lukla-area folks rebelled and stopped the helicopter flights to Shyanboche .] We can hope.

mieke

18th September 2006, 01:23 PM

Oli, I am not sure where you heard this about "registering" in Canada.
It may come from a reply in a very long Thorn Tree-thread about Nepal, where a Canadian regular spoke about the North American National Park system, and added "Any climber or hiker using this system in Canada, I know, is obligated to notify authorities of their return. If they neglect doing so - there is a significant fine applicable." - # 433 (August 24) (http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=16&threadid=1025127&messid=8760146&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=22&showall=true)

I'm under the impression there are a lot of parks/reserves where nothing or not much is really organised re. keeping track of hikers/trekkers, for safety reasons. Maybe the States and Canada have a better system indeed, in some places?

By the way the TAAN-website is still not back, so it's impossible to check on any new press release, additional information on the TRC or anything there.

mieke

19th September 2006, 06:14 PM

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.

:p (http://www.taan.org.np/)

It's back, the website. Didn't check it out yet for any more updates re. TRC.

yakshaver

20th September 2006, 04:35 PM

[QUOTE
I'm under the impression there are a lot of parks/reserves where nothing or not much is really organised re. keeping track of hikers/trekkers, for safety reasons. Maybe the States and Canada have a better system indeed, in some places?
QUOTE]

A lot of trekkers, especially of the "independent trekker" ilk, go to places like the Himalayas especially because there are less regulated, with less controls, registeres, data management etc, safety rails, warning signs - and generally all the trappings of a "civilised" adventure (an oximoron in many people's views). What TAAN is doing out of self interest, including the "safety aspect" of TRC, will feel abhorent, or at least unpleasant, to many trekkers. Many want that adventure feel, where they are away form "civilisation" and striking out on their own in a new and adventurous environment, like a 3-4 week around Kanchenjunga or Makalu, or even to Gokyo (though this last one can hardly be called genuinely adventurous...)

jamesy

20th September 2006, 08:20 PM

I for one am gutted about this new TAAP bulls**t. I am between jobs and had the opportunity to go back to Nepal for 3 weeks. Was about to book flights but am not prepared to pay TAAP to NOT take a guide!

These guys are basically a monopoly that will try to drive independent guides, lodges and eateries out of business (because guides will take trekkers wherever their commission is best) and generate huge profits for doing nothing. This will exacerbate an already dire situation for Nepali's who are desperate for their substantial tourist trade to resume after the recent perceptions of Maoist trouble amongst foreigners.

I am happy to leave a record of my trek for safety reasons etc but am at a loss to explain why this could not be done by entering the old ACAP permit details on a computer database. Apart from anything else, as Yakshaver says, its the adventure and the wilderness that lots of trekkers go to Nepal for - if I want sanitised adventure I'll go to a theme park!

So Namaste to my Gurung friends in Nepal - I hope your government will allow you to freely ply your trades and I look forward to seeing you in the future - and Ola to my new Spanish friends that I'll meet during my upcoming 3 weeks trekking through the Pyrenees!

jamesy

20th September 2006, 09:01 PM

One other thing...has anyone looked at the TAAN Intoduction which states they are there to "meet their common goals and also assist the government by providing suggestions to develop trekking business into a revenue generating industry"

Only after this do they mention any environmental aims and nowhere on this page is any safety objective mentioned.

My feeling is it's all about the money.

I'd like to hear TAAN's response but as everyone who has tried to contact them has found emails are bounced back as their indox is full and replies they have made seem evasive to say the least.

Todd Delaney

21st September 2006, 06:28 AM

Hi Folks,
For what its worth, I have cut and paste my recent correspondence with TAAN on my upcoming Sept/Oct trek...my original question is at the bottom, TAAN response is on top...

Dear Todd Delaney,

If you start your trek before 1st October you can do it without TRC
but not possible after September.

TRC mean you must have to join the trekking company and minimum guide
or porter has to accompany with you from register trekking company
after September this year. If you need address to obtain your TRC you
caould ask with any registered trekking company. They will provide your
TRC.

Thank you !

TAAN
******
At 05:38 PM 9/15/2006, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I am a trekker from Australia and will be starting a trek to Gokyo
>and EBC on September 29 and finishing October 17 this year.
>
>My understanding is that because I will be getting a Trekking Permit
>from KTM before October 1 that will not need to also get a TRC for
>this particular trek because I start the trek before Oct 1 even
>though I finish the trek in mid Oct.
>
>Could you please confirm that my understanding is true and accurate.
>
>Todd Delaney

mieke

21st September 2006, 04:40 PM

@ all,
2x the same message:

Andrées on YetiZone this morning (http://www.yetizone.com/wwwboard/messages/50330.shtml) (English)
Andrées on Trekkingforum this morning (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39178#post39178) (German)

A fellow German poster, Klaus, reported this: correspondence with the Nepalese Embassy in Germany (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39160#post39160)

So with their reply yesterday, the Embassy confirmed that even on September 20 they had still not received any official information or instructions from their government. And they say that they had much mail from trekkers in respect of the announced new TRC rules, that they would all forward to their government.
In combination with the news that Andrées posted this morning, it looks like tomorrow's meeting in Kathmandu will bring a kind of final, official "outcome". Or at least "final" for the time being...

mieke

23rd September 2006, 05:44 PM

It stays all a bit weird, if you ask me. "Speaking at the 28th annual general meeting of Trekking Agents Association of Nepal on Friday, Pradeep Gyawali, Minister for Culture, Tourism and Civil Aviation said"....

So a Minister attends the Annual General Meeting (assembly) of the TAAN and its members, he has a lot to say, but apparently the TRC is either not worth mentioning by him, or by the media who were there as well...
Maybe I'm simply overlooking something; could be.

Here is a Kantipur reporting about that occasion, with interesting information as said not about the new rules with the Certificate, but about airliner capacity and about trekking in Upper Mustang and Upper Dolpa instead!

Int'l airlines allowed to add extra flights (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=87001) - eKantipur on September 23
Gyawali also said the government had initiated preparation to reduce royalties imposed for trekking in upper Mustang and Dolpa. “We are planning to exempt royalties to Indian tourists in both the trekking areas. Also, we are preparing to cut down royalties by 50 percent in upper Mustang and by 75 percent in upper Dolpa for tourists from third countries,” he said.

Currently, the government charges each tourist US$70 per day in upper Mustang. Also, trekkers are required to pay at least seven days' royalties to trek there. The royalty charge for upper Dolpa is US$90 per day.

Masala_High

24th September 2006, 02:59 AM

thesilvertops

24th September 2006, 03:33 PM

yakshaver

25th September 2006, 12:11 AM

Hi

I think a lot of the Annapurna area is controlled by the Maoists. That's why trekkers get taken for their donation. Last time I was there the ACAP people had moved right out to on the road near Pokhara and all the checkpoints on the circuit were closed. The only government presence was at Jomosom where the army have a base presumably to protect the airport (as at Lukla). Why we are still having to buy the Annapurna permit is questionable! Where is this money going? I doubt that TAAN will have a presence out their as they too will be stung by (voluntary) donations to the maoists.

The army was definitely in control at Chame, with a unit welcoming my helicopter landing there in July.
There were no Maoists up the Marsyangdi valley, or all the way to Jomson.

However a fellow trekker told me he had to pay the maomao 1000 rupees at Bahundanda, a day out from Besisahar/Kundi.

TRC could probably set up camp at Hongde, where the army post is. This is the point your ACAP document is checked. They checked it in both my December and July treks. So you get the ACAP in order to have it checked at Thame, then at Jomsom, I think... I see no other obvoius reason for it right now.

yakshaver

25th September 2006, 12:19 AM

Seems like very bad timing to try and implement this sort of thing. Nepal should concentrate on other ways to develop their country, besides fixated on the western dollar$ I think this is where they went wrong in the past too.

What is insulting about this TRC is that for area like Annapuranas, they are already developed by locals. There are many houses, schools and shops in this area, as well as roads, many stretchs are paved. So the conservation project has been a farce all along. As it is today, out of control.
So they don't provide conservation of the park area or do they even provide minimal safety. You can expect to be held up for a cash donation! hardly a relaxing trek...
Poon hill is the gem of Nepal. Who controls this area, the TAAN?

I agree with the conservation comments. The road being built up the Marsiangdi is very bad, both for the local communities along the valley, as well as from a conservation and tourist perspective. An amazing trek, probably the best in the world, is being lost.

I fundamentaly disagree with the AC being "hardly a relaxing trek". I mean, it is strenuous in places, but phisically, not from a mao perspective necessarily. I trekked along side it in Dec 05 and July 06 and had an excellent time. Did not have the pleasure of meeting the Maoists, though I was kind of looking forward to it. In severn trekks, they have somehow avoided me... In December they were already packed and gone home for winter, and in July I flew over their checkpost landing in Chame.
I do not believe that encountering the Maoists, and having to pay some money to them, adds to the stress to a significant degree. At least not on the popular treks.

narba

27th September 2006, 09:04 AM

I don't understand why TAAN is charging TRC fee for tourist when they alreday charged with guide/porter service.TAAN is chiting for tourist dobble charging money.

mieke

27th September 2006, 02:35 PM

@ narba,

They are supposed to have a system operational as well, as of next week, that keeps track of when and where you're headed, with itinerary, your name and nationality, and when you'll be back. It was said in previous announcements they would use special computerprograms to do all that. And TAAN also announced that in several of the more remote checkpoints they would install telephone facilities (whether landlines, cellphones or satphones I don't know).
This, of course, all costs money. Whether it is all going to work, especially in case of an emergency situation with a foreign trekker which is one of the reasons why the TRC becomes mandatory, is an open question; after all there is no experience with their new "safety system" yet.

On a board in German (http://www.nepalboard.de/nepal/fua/27228.html) somebody with a Nepali e-mailaddress yesterday announced that untill the 3rd week of October (he writes untill, and then says "20 days", which is not correct) you would be fine trekking without a TRC. He didn't explain where he got that news from, and it seems that the TAAN website is again not available (or at least yesterday it wasn't). So it's impossible to look up online if the implementation-date of TRC has been postponed. Mailing them (TAAN) also wasn't too much of a success ever since August, so I guess trekkers will still just have to find out all for themselves...

mieke

27th September 2006, 04:44 PM

correction

A Nepali travelagent meanwhile confirmed that TAAN would have sent an information letter, saying TRC now starts being officially required as of October 20.

the reply in English on Trekkingforum.com (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39486#post39486)

Disclaimer:
Please don't shoot me if you're there in a few weeks time, and it all turns out to be different AGAIN...
.

lucie.naxerova@seznam.cz

27th September 2006, 05:42 PM

Hallo, I have the same news from our guy in KTM, that TRC is postponed until OCtober 21. Jupeee

Padre

28th September 2006, 04:41 PM

Anyone any further update on this ?

polecat

28th September 2006, 08:30 PM

Folks,
as I understood, after october 20 independent trekkers will be banned.
Then we need to find other ways, half-legal or illegal.

If talk about Annapurna Area, all check posts are known. All of them we can go around. It's first way.

Or we can join to trekking group nominally, for example, in some agency in Kathmandu. And walk alone, but near check posts come up to group with official porter, sorry for emotion... It's 2nd way.

Or we can to bribe to check-posts for absence porter/guide. But we need to know, how much:) It's 3th way.

Victory was ours! Which considerations?

mieke

29th September 2006, 12:26 AM

New confusion?
I heard that TAAN would have informed its members (yesterday or today) that untill further notice the start of the whole TRC-thing is put in the fridge...

Apparently they are experiencing problems getting everything ready, and there is no fixed new date for the implementation anymore. Is there somebody here who could confirm this?!

edited because I wasn't satisfied with the original version

Oli

29th September 2006, 02:42 AM

Hurrah! Maybe they have realised that it's a stupid rule that will be more trouble to enforce than its worth. Hopefully they'll give it a little more thought and decide to quietly scrap the whole thing :D

Andy K

29th September 2006, 12:30 PM

Harry

29th September 2006, 10:04 PM

I am sorry to rain on the emerging jubilation but yesterday a friend attempted to get an ACAP Permit in Kathmandu and they at first refused because she did not have an agency. Sounds to me like they are gearing up for a no independant trekker policy. But being Nepal she got her permit (and 1 for me too :-) by going back a few hours later and convincing the next guy.

Good news! Like me traveling most of the time with Nepal friends and brotheres and next trek with my Nepali sister. Join the Tihar and Dasain festival and become brother or sister on the bhai tika day in Nepal and problem is solved!

I think a will have a beer on that.

Harry

Harry

1st October 2006, 04:38 AM

TAAN has decided to postpone TRC until October 21

This is the latest info I got from my contacts in Ktm.

Harry

polecat

1st October 2006, 08:02 AM

So if I'll start my trek 19 of october and will be in route to 9 of november - I don't need TRC and porter/guide? Or I'm wrong?

Harry

1st October 2006, 02:56 PM

So if I'll start my trek 19 of october and will be in route to 9 of november - I don't need TRC and porter/guide? Or I'm wrong?

That's what the latest information is about, see what happens after the 21 nd.:)

Oli

4th October 2006, 05:14 AM

To: info@ntb.org.np, info@taan.org.np
Date: 03-Oct-2006 20:24
Subject: Friends visiting Nepal, advice needed

Dear TAAN & NTB

I have two friends, currently in India, who are asking me for advice
on their plans to visit Nepal some time in the next month or two. They
want to do a short trek near Annapurna and are wondering about the
need for guide & porter. What should I tell them about TRC?

Thanks in anticipation of your advice, best regards

So far the TAAN email has bounced twice.....

mieke

4th October 2006, 06:18 PM

Sometimes it's really rewarding, you know: "forum hopping" if you're hungry for specific information...

What to make of this: Heidi on YetiZone today

http://www.yetizone.com/wwwboard/messages/50512.shtml - "don't worry about TRC"

.
And before I forget: welcome! to stilltrekkin and to klaus here :-)
.

Oli

20th October 2006, 05:23 AM

NTB replied on the 12th to say I must ask TAAN :(

So far the TAAN email has bounced twice.....

TAAN website news pages seem to be broken. But ifnwhen it works there is a recent press release publicising some new websites rom TRPAP & NTB on welcomenepal.com, eg everest (http://www.welcomenepal.com/everest/), pretty but no mention of either TRC or the maoist taxes :confused:

Didn't TAAN say that with TRC they will be publishing news info on trail conditions etc on their website? Maybe they ought to include a "suggested donation" that can/must be given to the cadre representatives in each area. ;)

louis

20th October 2006, 11:10 AM

there is a post that says that Trc is in effect as of the 27th of this month. Is this confirmed or just an attemp of advertising?
LM

Oli

20th October 2006, 02:17 PM

That post is from Rishi, who is a trek agent in KTM, we have no reason to suspect he is lying, but also TAAN have already let their implementation deadline slip twice this month - so who knows?

hikinghooper

27th October 2006, 07:27 PM

I am currently in Kathmandu trying to organize my trek. Every trekking agency that I have talked to has said that you must use a guide or porter. Everyone that I have talked to said they started checking today or yesterday for the permits. Of course all of the trekking agencies have said that you must use a guide or porter.

One of the climbing agencies said they could give me a TRC certificate but others said no. Another said that you must at all times have a guide and porter with you. This would be a big problem because now I would have to pay for a guide or porter just to wait 4-14 days while I am climbing- so that he could walk with me back down the trail!

The problem that I have is that if I must have a TRC permit then I must get it from a trekking agency. So I must find an agency that I can get the TRC permit from without hiring their guide and porter. So regardless of the intent of the bill the reality is that you might be required to get a guide or porter anyway because no agency is going to just sell the permit. In actuallity the new legislature gives the approved agents great power and might just eliminate all independent trekking:mad:

Can anyone on the trail let me know if they have succesfully trekked without a guide or porter and with just a certificate today or yesterday?:confused:

Another problem what if you are in a group trekking with one guide and then some people get sick and want to go down and the rest want to continue hiking? What happens then does everyone have to go down from the mountain?

Harry

27th October 2006, 09:41 PM

Hope TAAN can be more clear, cause lot of different stories are told to me also today. If it continues like this they will loose a lot on tourisme!
Looks like the trekkingcompanies are just taking advantage from this situation.....:o :confused:

Spaceman347

28th October 2006, 12:34 PM

The way out of this for those not wishing to employ a porter may be to form informal groups. If a notice board were organised somewhere where people could join into groups of 10 just for the purpose of getting the TRC, perhaps one person who wants a porter and nine who don't. As a group they could all get TRCs and employ a single porter (for the person who wanted one anyway).

As long as you all head off on the same day, once you hit the trail you can go on your seperate ways. You'll most probably all be within a day or 2 of each other for the duration of the trek so it would be believable that you had dropped back a day or were in advance of the group if questioned.

Lonelytramper

28th October 2006, 04:17 PM

Arrived in Kathmandu today. I am told I cannot get ACAP or park permits without a TRC.:mad: :mad:

I shall give updates if it is enforced or If I discover ways around this!

Oli

2nd November 2006, 03:38 AM

It seems that TRC has now come into effect, and TAAN are calling the shots. These are the new rules, according to the TAAN website news pages (when they are working), as of 26-10-2006

TRC REGULATORY PROVISIONS

1. Every trekker has to necessarily obtain a TRC document before they enter any of the prescribed trekking regions and routes.
2. Trekkers are required to keep TRC along with them throughout their treks.
3 TRC has to be shown to TAAN authorities, national park check posts, conservation area check posts and police check posts on demand.
4. Deviation from the prescribed trekking areas shall be taken as a violation of law of the Government of Nepal and that punishment would be imposed in accordance with the Government rules.
5. Trekkers are required to keep their copies of passports along with them for verification during trekking.
6. A trekker or a group of trekkers is required to employ at least one field staff of the concerned trekking agency.
7. TRC shall be non-transferable, non-refundable and non-endorsable and valid only for single entry.
8. TRC has to be obtained only through the trekking agencies registered with the Government of Nepal.

TRC REGULATED TREKKING AREAS

1. Rara National Park
2. Khaptad National Park
3. Dhaulagiri Region
4. Annapurna Region
5. Langtang National Park
6. Makalu Barun National Park
7. Sagarmatha National Park
8. Rolwaling Area

The Trekking Areas where TRC is not Required

1. The Shailung area bordering with Kavre, Sindhupalchowk and Dolakha districts, and Timal area of Kavre district, Bhairav Kunda and Panch Pokhari areas of Sindhupalchowk
2. The surrounding areas of the Kathmandu Valley such as Kakani, Shivapuri, Nagarkot, Dhulikhel and Namobouddha.
3.The trekking routes to Ganesh Himal via Gorkha and Lamjung, Nuwakot, Dhading and Rasuwa districts.
4.Ghalegaon, Ghanpokhara, Panchase, Sarangkot within Lamjung and Kaski districts.
5. Sirubari of Syangja district.
6.Millennium trekking area lying in between Kaski and Syangja districts.
7. South of Solu below Lukla.

source (http://www.taan.org.np/news_details1.php?nid=331&PHPSESSID=ab88b1e1dffadfe1c4d20e1f33f2ac77)

(please update it) :D