Teahouse trek budget

[jakethemuss]

Does anyone have an idea on a rough budget for the Annapurna Circuit for a budget backpacker doing a teahouse trek? I do not want a package tour but to do it alone, I would appreciate any price per day estimates on the following:
Porter
Guide
Breakfast/lunch/dinner
Bus/flight from KTM to Pokhara
Accomodation (average standard)
Maoist fee!

Thanks very much
Cheers
Jake

[Harry]

Jake,

Last news that price for Annapurna is about triple price for entrance. Normal 2000 Nrs, seems to be a new rule, but not very clear at the moment.
Permit to be taken at Ktm, not Besisahar, this is more expensive.
Breakfast/diner/lunch about $10-12 dollars daily, unless you are a very big eater, other whise take a few more (excl. beer from 2-3 dollar) but this is
including lodging. From Manang prices are rising, after the Thorung La, normal again.
Bus to Dumre around $ 3, from Dumre to Besisahar around $1,-
Moaist fee nrs 1000 (1 dollar approx. 73 nrs)
Flight from Pokhara to Ktm about $ 65 dollar (2005)
Guide or porter or porter/duide, if you like I can contact one for you. Btw, you only need a guide who will carry some stuff for you, if so how many kgs?

Just give me a message if you like.

cheers,

Harry

Does anyone have an idea on a rough budget for the Annapurna Circuit for a budget backpacker doing a teahouse trek? I do not want a package tour but to do it alone, I would appreciate any price per day estimates on the following:
Porter
Guide
Breakfast/lunch/dinner
Bus/flight from KTM to Pokhara
Accomodation (average standard)
Maoist fee!

Thanks very much
Cheers
Jake

[jakethemuss]

Hi Harry,

Thanks for the prompt reply, the info is great. I am not sure what the backpack will weight just yet, i haven't even brought one! So i am in a bit of a hurry to get organised. I will definitely get back to you as soon as I know. I will have a travelling companion with me and she will need help carrying her pack also.

CHeers
Jake

[yakshaver]

Jake,

Just adding a bit more info to Harry's very good stuff.

If you want a bit of a round figure for food, one or two extra canned or bottled drinks, the water you might buy, etc - and including the lodge accomodation , I would budget about 20 US per person per day. As Harry says, lower altitudes may have things a bit cheaper, while at higher altitudes it would be more expensive. But 20 bucks might be the average per person, accommodation included.
The AC has prices regulated by ACAP all along the way, and prices are relatively constant, though Thorung Pedi or High camp might be more expensive than other locations.

In Khumbu there is a distinct difference between low and high, in terms of price. And also, in Lukla and Namche you find some more expensive lodges/hotels, which offer above average food, accommodation and service.

A good guide might charge between 20-30 US per day. A porter 7-10 US per day. They carry about 20 kg. This should be enough weight for the clothing and gear of two people.
You can find occasionally a good porter-guide, who might carry your weight and play guide, but it is a bit of a rare thing to find one good one. Plus, I prefer my guide to be able to lead and take care of logistics, socialise, answer my questions, "add-value" (to use one of those corporate wanking words...). A guide usually does not carry loads, this is a social hierarchy well regarded in Nepal. And lodge staff regard and treat a guide differently to someone seen carrying lodads. This is a reality. Still, my good friend Andrees employes an excellent porter-guide (he treks by himself, so a guide AND aporter might be a bit of an overkill...). The same seems to be the picture for Harry, and I think this is the best arrengement for a single trekker who wants some help along the trek - the porter-guide will not carry more than 10 kg extra. For two trekkers, the weight is heavier, about 20 kg. I would take a guide as well. But that's me.

There are a number of people, Harry included, who've trekked a number of times, and have good trustworthy and professional contacts in terms of guides, porters, porter-guides in Nepal. Sharon is another one which comes to mind.

So please feel free to private-message Harry, Sharon and/or myself, for our recommended guides/porters/porterguides.

You should have a grand time in Nepal. It is just amazing.

[Harry]

Hello Jake,

Whenever help or advice, just contact me.

Cheers,
Harry:)


Hi Harry,

Thanks for the prompt reply, the info is great. I am not sure what the backpack will weight just yet, i haven't even brought one! So i am in a bit of a hurry to get organised. I will definitely get back to you as soon as I know. I will have a travelling companion with me and she will need help carrying her pack also.

CHeers
Jake

[jakethemuss]

Hi yakshaver and Harry, thanks again for the great advice. Like you say, yakshaver, i too would like to engage the Nepali culture a bit more and get that 'added value' so i like the idea of a guide. I will be trekking with a friend so if we could get our load down less than 20kg then we would definitely get one porter. If we can only get it down to 30 kg then a porter and a porter/guide might be an option. Two porters and a guide seems like overkill? I guess we won't know until we both weigh our packs. I am still collecting all my gear so I won't know for a week or so. I will definitely get back to you when i have the weight as I would like a recommendation please. Will the porters carry our packs or will we pack our gear into a duffel bag?
cheers
jake

[yakshaver]

. If we can only get it down to 30 kg then a porter and a porter/guide might be an option. Two porters and a guide seems like overkill? I guess we won't know until we both weigh our packs. I am still collecting all my gear so I won't know for a week or so. I will definitely get back to you when i have the weight as I would like a recommendation please. Will the porters carry our packs or will we pack our gear into a duffel bag?
cheers
jake

Jake, you are right, it depends on the weight you come up with in the end. I usually go a bit overboard with stuff. Still, when my son and I trekked in December last year, we had 20 kg, not more. I am not saying you shouldn't have more, it all depends on your style. You will find that a lot of stuff you won't use at all... And there are lists of gear to take, which various people have posted on this site.

In don't think it is an overkill to take one guide and 2 porters, if indeed you need them.
However, if you need to employ to porters, no, I don't think is an overkill. I have once trekked by myself with Santaman as a guide, and his brother Sham as the porter. I had 10 kg for the porter, and while Santa offered to carry it for me, making an exception for me (don't try it, he won't carry it for anyone else!!), I wanted him to be confortable and be able to socialise, talk and to his guiding stuff, not puff uphill. I should be the one doing the puffing, not him!! So his brother Sham carried the load for me for a meagre 8 dollars a day (which Santa thogught was a bit much, but I don't pay porters less than that).

If you have around 20 kg, say 18-23 or so, one porter will be enough.
When you weigh the gear, please bear in mind that you will carry a little bit yourself 3-5 kg, being your camera, a jacket, a water bottle etc.
So you consider only the "for the porter" items.

If you get to 30 kg for 2 trekkers (a lot of stuff in my opinion, but hey...) yes, it gets a bit borderline. Do you get 2 porters? You may. On the one hand a porter may want to carry all of that for a higher daily fee. After all, they do that regularly when they work for locals. If porters wish to make more money, they don't go faster to cover two days walk in one... They double the load!! It is a bit insane. So it is not unusual to see porters carrying 40 kg or more. But I definitely don't advise you do that, because this is where exploitation of a desperate poor man begins, in my opinion anyway.
II suggest you look at lists gear to take with you, and, for the two of you, try to have it to about 20 kg. Remember that even if you, by any chance, have left something importand behind, you can always buy it on trek. Many lodges have little or bigger shops which carry items vital for trekking, including any type of clothing, boots, water bottles, sun glasses and sun hats (by the way, do take a sun hat!!), trekking poles, technical stuff, anything. Lukla, Namche, Manang and Jomsom are in fact almost on par with Thamel in terms of what you can buy.

[jakethemuss]

Hi yakshaver, thanks again for the great tips. I will whittle it down as far as I can, i tend to overload too and end up wearing the same stuff day in day out anyway!

Now i have a good idea of the costs involved (from my previous post) could you tell me how much cash to carry with me and give me an idea for the denominations to take on the Annapurna Circuit? Will teahouses and villagers take US$ or is it predominantly Nepal Rupees? Also, do you pay your guide/porter per day, at the start or at the end of your trek?
Thanks
jake

[Cosmo]

Hello all, been following this thread and would like some feedback to one of Jakethemass's earlier questions
ie. Will the porters carry our packs or will we pack our gear into a duffel bag?

Ive wondered the same thing. I've brought a big stuff bag and wondered do I transfer my gear to this for them to put in whatever they use to carry or do they carry my normal pack?
thanks for all the advice on the board - great

[Escher]

Porters normally put their loads in a basket (doko) or on a wooden frame (when carrying food and such like). Porters for camping groups will often carry two large duffels strapped together with rope with no basket or frame to lash it to.

Porters prefer duffels to carry as there are less straps to get in the way but will carry a rucksack too (but still in the traditional fashion). So just take your stuff in whatever bag you have (duffel ideally) and give it to them to carry. You won't be taking your stuff out and putting it in their bag.

[yakshaver]

Now i have a good idea of the costs involved (from my previous post) could you tell me how much cash to carry with me and give me an idea for the denominations to take on the Annapurna Circuit? Will teahouses and villagers take US$ or is it predominantly Nepal Rupees? Also, do you pay your guide/porter per day, at the start or at the end of your trek?
Thanks
jake

Take Nepali Rupees. Take all sorts of denominations, including smaller ones, and make sure you have some hundreds with you. I took only thousands with me in July. Santaman had to bail me out twice, when we had lunch at lodges, as the lodge owner did not have change. Of course this did not happen at the lodges where I slept, as one usually spends more money there, and they will change. But if you just spend 50-300 ruppees, or so during the day as you walk, lodge ownere may not want to change a big denomination. Then again, July was low season, not many trekkers, not much cash floating around. In high season I never had this problem.

Regarding the pack question of Cosmo, Escher is right. Porters prefer you to give them a duffel bag. Not a backpack. If you give them a back pack they usually wear it hanging on a tumpline, wich hangs from their forhead anyway... Go duffel, you make it easier for them. Plus, a duffel in Thamel or Pokhara is quite cheap.

[Cosmo]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry for my ignorance but what is the difference between a duffle and a strong stuff bag. Any one have a picture of the usual duffle bag? I had visions of just pulling our stuff bags out of their basket at the end of the day but perhaps this isnt the way to go... it's always the little things that cause the most inconvenience so would like to do the "easy" thing and cant picture what the duffle is. thanks again

[Spaceman347]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "stong stuff bag" but here's a link to a "duffle" http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=NA&model=AAW1

The bag should ideally be waterproof/dust proof (if not waterproof then using strong plastic bags inside to hold your gear would probably be a good idea). The bag may very well get dropped, dragged over rocks or otherwise treated with some minor abuse so just using a thick plastic bag may be ok, but if it gets a hole in it or rips then you could have some problems.

[Cosmo]

Thanks for the picture - got it!
This is what I brought - but probably not tough enough..
http://www.travelgear.com.au/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=ASSL&Category_Code=STUFFSAC

[Spaceman347]

Ahh yes, handy bags to have and you may get away with it but if you have any problems you could be a long way from a clothes drier or shop to buy any replacement clothing etc.

You can get cheap strong bags in Thamel, just pick up something when you get there or grab a good strong sports bag.

[Cosmo]

Thanks for your help Spaceman. Might hedge my bets and take the stuff back and check out a cheap duffel in Kathmandu.

Ive just had my long service leave (Oz) signed off and just waiting for my husbands company to give the ok - but Im all set and pretty much organised as we'd planned the trip 2 years ago and cancelled 3 weeks before departure due to my mother in law being diagnosed with cancer.

So just fine tuning really as Ive pulled out all the zillion of hours of research plan notes and ready for action again
Only variation is we had planned to trek in Oct Nov originally and this time will will fly from Pokhara to Jomson on the 28th Feb to do the Jomson trek before cutting across to ABC and then back to Pokhara - taking it nice and slow - (I hope 21 days if reasonably slow for this route? - (Including going up to Kabeni, and Mukinath at the start).
Im a bit concerned about the cold but even if it is colder than I hope as long as the views are there we'll be happy.
Thanks everyone for the great posts.. Ive been lurking for months

[Escher]

Only variation is we had planned to trek in Oct Nov originally and this time will will fly from Pokhara to Jomson on the 28th Feb to do the Jomson trek before cutting across to ABC and then back to Pokhara - taking it nice and slow - (I hope 21 days if reasonably slow for this route? - (Including going up to Kabeni, and Mukinath at the start).
Im a bit concerned about the cold but even if it is colder than I hope as long as the views are there we'll be happy.
Thanks everyone for the great posts.. Ive been lurking for months

21 days for Jomsom to the Sanctuary will definitely allow you to take it slow (are you including getting to KTM and Pokhara in that time)? Even if you are that is still plenty of time. Spend as much time as you can in the villages of Kagbeni, Marpha, Muktinath and Jharkot they are highlights of the trek.

The coldest places will be up into the sanctuary and by the time you get there you will be well acclimatised to the conditions and be able to deal with the cold no problem.

Have a great trip.

[Cosmo]

Sorry Jakethemuss - didnt mead to sidetrack your thread - your questions (and answers have been a great help to us also in the planning)

Thanks Escher - I have read many of your helpful comments here and on yetizone. Glad you say the 21 days is plenty as we really want to "savour" the whole Nepal thing so are planning on only walking about 3 - 4 hours max a day so that we have plenty of time at each village to stop and smell the roses.
The basic plan is arriving in Kathmandu for 2 - 3 day before flying to Pokhara -stay 2 nights before flying to Jomsom. Thats when weve allowed 21 days before arriving back in Pokhara (flexible of course but 22 max) This will give us 2 nights in Pokhara before flying back to Kathmandu. Then 6 nights left to have a better look at Kathmandu and pick a couple of the places around eg. Naragot etc. Total time 34 days. (on top of this we're coming up from India so will stop at Chitwan on the way up prior to the start of this plan)
Any feedback on "the plan" would be great and much appreciated.
thanks all

[Escher]

Wow, I am jealous! Your plan sounds perfect. You have ample time to do everything that you could possibly want and savour the Nepali experience.

As I said spend some extra time in Marpha, Kagbeni and Jharkot. All great places. On the way down from the sanctuary spend some time in the old part of Ghandruk too. You have plenty of time with 21 days trekking to just do as you please and not spend any of it on a fixed itinerary, you can follow every whim as you wish.

I've been to Chitwan in March and April and the guides told me that that is the best time of the year to see wildlife. Late february might be a little early I'm not sure. When I was there in March 2003 and 2004 we saw dozens of rhino and all other wildlife but we spoke to someone who had been there earlier and saw nothing. Although I don't know if they were there in February or not. It might be better to see Chitwan after your trek and between Pokhara and Kathmandu (you can fly to Chitwan), of course that depends on your travel arrangements. As I said I am not entirely sure of the wildlife situation in February but I know from experience it was especially good in march. Chitwan is a great place in any case, I love it. The standard Chitwan tour involves two days. Make sure you add at least an extra day where you can go into the park to spot wildlife for an entire day and go in a small group (ideally just the pair of you). You can then really soak up the atmosphere of the place.

You might just catch the start of the rhododendrons blooming towards the end of march in the forests around the entrance to the sanctuary if you are lucky.

Your plan sounds spot on. Just go with the flow and relax after the stress of India! And you will have a fine old time. I am jealous!

[Cosmo]

:confused: Thanks Escher for the reply - It really is helpful to have feedback on plans as it is all a bit of playing the dream thing when working out the trip via the net isnt it!
I was interested that you thought the above places a must, because they looked liked hightlights to us (from photos). Ive had real problems getting my head around the distances and times for this and had surrended and was going to work it out when we got there but Id like to hear your opinions please.
This was were I was at -
We fly into Jomsom - should we stop there for the day to help aclimatise? When we start do you go thru Jarkot to get to Kabeni or as I think its a different track?
Id sort of ended up thinking stop Jomsom next day walk to Kabeni via Jarkot stop then next day Mukinath stop then Mukinath to Marpha for stop..
What is the logical route with these 4 places to have a nice start to out trek without pushing it?
For these 4 places to enjoy them do we need to stay there or eg. is Jarkot just good for a walk thru and maybe a drink stop.
I know there is all the temple complex at Mukinath and the Marpa is supposedly lovely but do we need to stop at Kabeni and or Jarkot and if not is it a big day walking wise?... so many questions hee
Anyone's thoughts appreciated.

[Escher]

This is what I would do:-

Day 1 - Jomsom 2700m (first night)
Day 2 - Kagbeni 2800m (2-4 hours) - leave early as a fierce wind starts up by 10am, it will be into your back however
Day 3 - Jharkot 3500m (2-5 hours) - Jharkot is after Kagbeni up the hill just below Muktinath. Jharkot is on the same track to Muktinath, no detour required
Day 4 - Daytrip to Muktinath then back down to Jharkot or Kagbeni (all down hill) (I wouldn't sleep over in Muktinath - too high 3800m - an interesting place to visit but Jharkot is nicer to sleep at
Day 5 - On to Marpha (again leave early so that you miss the fierce wind coming up the valley)

If you are feeling the altitude then just stay an extra night anywhere you like but it is pretty much down hill until you get to Tatopani and start to head up towards Ghorepani. Take two days to go up to Ghorepani from Tatopani - its a long hot slog and will help you acclimatise for the sanctuary.

[Cosmo]

That's a fantastic help - much appreciated

[pattmac29]

hello- i have read all comments and have learned a great deal, ty to all. my question is about tipping- i am taking an 18 day ebc teahouse trek with a well known nepal company. how much in u.s $ should i plan on for the porters,guide and teahouse employees. this is over and above what they get from the trek company thank you in advance

[yakshaver]

hello- i have read all comments and have learned a great deal, ty to all. my question is about tipping- i am taking an 18 day ebc teahouse trek with a well known nepal company. how much in u.s $ should i plan on for the porters,guide and teahouse employees. this is over and above what they get from the trek company thank you in advance

For an 18 day trek, if you were happy with their services, I would pay about 2000 rupees for the guide, and about the same for the porter. Some people pay less, and I believe 1500 rupees would also be quite acceptable. Like Sharon says on another thread, I would take the quality of the services into account. If they were not helpful, or were really annoying, no tip.

[pattmac29]

yakshaver -thank you

[priebesj]

On my recent trip I hiked for my first 2-1/2 weeks with two Brits who had a guide. Although he wasn't actually my guide, he had helped me out as well, so I gave him a tip of 1500rp when we went our different ways. I had to argue with him to accept it, but he finally did.

steve