fco.gov.uk & insurance

[Oli]

Historically the British Foreign Office have been quite relaxed with their travel advice on going to Nepal, the usual "avoid Maoists" & "don't trek alone" etc. But I can't remember them ever saying "Don't go" - until last weekend. They now advise against all "non-essential" travel to Nepal during the run up to the elections, and will review the situation later in Feb.

They do seem to say that, as ever, there is more risk on mishap in the Mountains than being shot or blown up in Kathmmandu or on the highway, that's always been the case. Now I don't really care what they say, but a crucial detail is that insurance companies do care that they "advise against travel", and consequently insurance cover is likely to be void. I check ed mine (with the BMC) and I'm not covered if I ignore FCO advice, and furthermore cancellation insurance doesn't usually cover acts of war or political strife.

So unless the FCO change their minds I, and many others I'm sure, are a bit stuffed. It's a tough call - probably nothing bad would happen, but if it does then it'll be BAD. I've just been hearing about a friend & g/f of a friend who was seriously runover (in Russia somewhere) and their medical & evac bills were in excess of £1million, and I don't think anyone reading this could afford that without insurance.

Check here (http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618386271) for updates.

[yakshaver]

Australia had the stuff about "non-essential travel" for a while now, maybe a year or so. I travelled twice and had insurance. I did always check with the insurer, but never had them say don't go, you are not covered in Nepal.

By all means check. I did get my evacuation flight cost from Hongde for my son's illness. The cheque came last week.

Watching the developments with the bandth, and the fact that tourist minivans travelled unhindered, I don't think this is any different to years past.

I would check with the insurance.
I don't think airtravel to/from Nepal will be a problem.

[andyhag]

Hi

Just checked FCO site and it states:-

"We advise against all but essential travel to Nepal during the period leading up to the municipal elections on 8 February 2006".

So if you are travelling after the 8th Feb I can't see you having problems.

Andy.

[Plyn]

Oli

I have this problem - I'm off to Nepal next week - but my annual policy does not cover me for travelling 'against FCO advice'. This is not unusual in the UK - and is a bit of a problem in that I haven't been able to find anyone who will provide cover. There are some specialist brokers who could probably arrange it...at a price; the sort of commercial rates that journos/ NGOs etc can stick on expenses.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the semantics of the FCO advice - the tavel advisory will remain until it is downgraded and quite honestly I can't see that happening anytime soon.

If I find cover at a reasonable price I'll post the broker's details.

[Oli]

Yeah...

The significant thing here is that the FCO say "We advise against all but essential travel to Nepal (blah blah etc)". And that insurance companies will generally use any excuse to avoid making payments.

The bottom line is that as long as the FCO advise against travel (regardless of semantics) then insurance cover is void.

I'm not due to travel until Feb 27th, so I'm very much hoping that the situation / advisory will be relaxed before then. Plyn - if you do find a company that'll give cover then yes please do let us know.

[mieke]

Would it help you guys in any way to know that, according to a couple of posts here: Trekkingforum.com (http://www.trekkingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4907) (Austrian/German board), some people there still seem to be able to get good coverage for Nepal? ("Reiseversicherung" = travelinsurance).

The companies 3 of them mention in that thread, are German (".de"). And I have no idea myself how far we are meanwhile with our EU and the European integration, and if it's possible at all to close a deal with a German insurance company if you're a Brit, also taking into account the updated FCO advice. But then, the AA-advice (German equivalent) isn't really much friendlier towards Nepal-travels.

If you want me to translate some of what's in those German postings, just say so. Or register there yourself and ask in English; though the majority of the posts there are in German, of course nobody objects to an occasional question or comment in English - seeing how all of them love to go trekking in Nepal, where German isn't exactly the main language.

[Wiliam]

Even if the FCO advisory changes there is a another, unmentioned, problem: a lot of insurance policies will exclude claims that arise from terrorist (i.e. Maoist) actions and also for claims that arise from an uprising of local people (or such similar situations).

But I do agree with Yakshaver's general comments above.

[Oli]

Mieke: thanks for the tip, link & offer to translate. I have found that Google language tools (http://www.google.co.uk/language_tools?hl=en) do a passable translation of that page (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trekkingforum.com%2Ff orum%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D4907&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) (or any other).

I spoke with Gulf Air today, they are being quite flexible. The guy told me that they are offering alternative destinations or a refund for anyone booked to fly to Kathmandu up to the 14th Feb, when they will review the situation and FCO advice. I didn't check if the refunds or alterations will entail costs, and note that they don't have to do this, but they are being quite understanding and flexible.

William is quite correct about insurance cover on acts of terrorism and/or war (including politically motivated riots?) is generally not covered, presumably at the discretion of the insurers. But I know that was the case anyway, I wouldn't bother trying to claim back my Maoist "tax" by claiming to have been robbed at gunpoint (with a reciept to prove it!). My requirement for insurance is to cover my ass if I need a helicopter evac or get run over, or similar mishap. It's also worth noting that no amount if insurance cover will gaurntee rescue if you are trekking alone, fall off a cliff and there is nobody around to help.

So, DO read the small print on your insurance cover note, call them and confirm anything that's not clear. And if you aren't insured and take the sensibly cautious decision to cancel/defer or go elsewhere then you should definitely speak to your airline. Even if you are not covered then there is generally scope for honouring an agreement, but do check first/soon.

I hope it all works out OK for everyone.

[Nick Nepal]

Just an add on ..it may affect some people..www.worldnomads.com Australian company has informed me they are still covering Nepal ..the catch appears to be you have to be travelling on to Australia or N.Z. as part of your trip. (one or two exceptions like no cover for flight delays or cancellations. Mind boggles..Itineary as follows... end trek..Birethante...Pokhara..day trip to Ayres Rock..Kathmandu.

[Boulia]

Hi Yakshaver

which insurance company did you use last trip ? I use CoverMore and it has the usual exclusions noted above, ie acts of terrorism, civil war (declared or not) etc but cover is not dependent on Govt Advice (just as well no Australian would get cover to many palces if this was the case!!).

cheers

[kegarne]

Wold Expeditions recommend Mike Henry Travel Insurance, it seems pretty comprehensive. They are a NZ based company I believe.

[yakshaver]

Boulia,
I have used QBE Insurance, recommeded to me by Thor Travel in Adelaide.
They have been pretty good, and send me the cheque less than two weeks after sending in the claim, without any other hassles. Which was a pleasant surprise, havind dealt with various insuraces (not necessarily travel...) over the years. I did have all the receipts and paperwork, including the a hospital assessment of my son as soon as we landed in Pokhara. Quite a good private hospital there, a teaching hospital funded by India. I was pleasently surprised by the quality of the whole setup, including the doctors and nurses. Some of them were very good looking. Especially the nurses.

Regarding Oli's problem, I believe one needs to call and speak to the insurer directly. Not the travel agent. They may not cover flight changes due to political upheaval, but may will most probably still cover emergency medical evacuations.

[Plyn]

An update - have tried just about every travel insurance provider in the UK, several Private Client brokers and the British Insurance Brokers Asscn - and not one company would insure me for travel to Nepal (or to any other country against FCO advice).

However, insurance policies underwritten by UK Insurance and sold by the Royal Bank of Scotland and Tesco, amongst others, state in the policy schedule 'The policy excludes travel to destinations where the FCO has advised against "all travel".' It is clear that the FCO maintains one list advising against 'all travel' and a second, on which Nepal current appears, of advising against 'all but essential travel'. I reckon that travel to Nepal is therefore covered, because the FCO has not advised against 'all travel' there.

Well, if it comes to it, that's what I would argue with the regulators if any claim proved sticky!

[James]

Plyn,
I'm not sure I understand what your saying is not covered. My last policy (US) provided coverage against sickness, travel interruptions and such (normal type travel coverage) even if the country was on the restricted travel list with our state dept (which Nepal was). My only real exposure was if I was hurt in the civil conflict or I had to make alternate travel plans because of the civil disruptions. As I read your post I get the sense that there is no coverage whatsoever and that would seem unfair particularly in Nepal where the conflict is not directed at the tourist.

[Oli]

Plyn, James (et al)

Yes, two equally valid and correct points here. I understand the "follow FCO advice" clauses are fairly standard in the UK, as is the "no cover for acts of war or terrorism". And with the ambiguity of wording in the FCO advice in isn't really clear if we are covered or not, and asking the insurers they are bound to say "no" and their agents will "advise against"....

A contract lawyer might be able to make a good argument that our insurance cover is valid, but I'd rather not have to try arguing that point from a hospital bed in Kathmandu.

I am due to fly in a little over three weeks, but it'll probably be more than two weeks before I know if or where I'm going. Ho hum... just have to wait and see what happens.

[Plyn]

James things are perhaps a little different in the UK - my usual annual policy states:

'You will not be covered if you choose to travel to a specific area against the advice issued by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.'

This would normally be taken to mean the insurance is not valid when travelling to countries that the FCO has advised against all, or all but essential travel to - the interpretation being that holidays are not 'essential travel'. So in this case, yes, there would be no cover. Also excluded are any claims resulting as:

'any consequence whether direct or indirect of war, invasion, act of foreign enemy, hostilities (whether war be declared or not), any acts of terrorism, civil war, rebellion, revolution, insurrection, blockade, military or usurped power;' i.e. no cover if caught up in a mob in Ktm.

The newest insurance I got states that the insurance is not valid for travel to countries to which the FCO has advised against all travel -

'The policy excludes travel to destinations where the FCO has advised against "all travel".

So I would interpret this that the insurance is valid for travel to Nepal, for which the FCO has not advised against 'all travel'. If it came to a claim and it was disputed all one can do is pay up front and claim back through the regulator (which I have done successfully in the past, but that's another story!). So yes, Oli's right in that it is a grey area...

Well I'm off there for a month this afternoon - and am not worried (but then again I live in a rough part of South London, where the risks are perhaps significantly worse) - I arrived last year on the evening of 31st Jan, and didn't realise a coup had happened until I found I couldn't email anyone the next morning to tell them I had arrived...and then saw the news on a sat-tv. So I don't anticipate any problems and am more than happy to go over and continue to support the many friends I have over there.

[yakshaver]

If I understand Plyn correctly, the insurance is valid for Nepal, but not if the claim is due to war etc.
Thinking that claims in Nepal are 99% due to some medical issue, usually evacuation from the mountin, what is the real level of risk of a claim not to be paid?
Unless the insurance won't touch a destination full stop, chance for claiming due to some war or such in Nepal are minimal. My concern would be if they cover medical evacuation.

[Oli]

Quite right Yakshaver - this is the crux of the point we have been debating. Unfortunately your take on the contract is a moot point, it's what the insurers read in the small print that is critical.

Note that the FCO also say "The majority of problems encountered by British tourists in Nepal are trekking accidents" - implying that the current risk in Nepal is roughly the same as it has always been. But regardless of this the clause that says "We advise against all but essential travel to Nepal" does effectively invalidate ALL COVER for the WHOLE COUNTRY for ANY REASON. Probably.

Good luck & safe travels to Plyn, I hope I may see you in KTM at the end of this month.

[Plyn]

Thanks, Oli - I'll be back in Ktm on 1 March and staying at the Utse...and will be found in Sam's Bar in the evenings, curfews permitting! Might see you there...

Bill

[mattconnock]

Hi,

I am travelling to Nepal in March. I checked with World Nomads insurance - they will still cover me for travel in Nepal even if there is a FCO travel advisory in place. they have standard clauses concerning disruptions to travel due to terrorism, acts of war etc, but they are in all insurance policies.

[yakshaver]

I can see the logic in what you say, Oli.
I guess the best thing is to have direct contact with the insurer and put to them the various scenarios. In my experience, if you ask them theoretical questions you get some policy red to you over the phone, which live you none the wiser. But if you give the exact scenario, with the "what happens if I need medical evacuation" kind of question, you may get a stright answer.
Everything else is speculation. That's why next week I will ring one of the insurers I have used over the years, to see what they say.

[Oli]

Yeah, I know, of course. Having been over this debate many times here and in my conscience I know think I know how best to negotiate this with the insurance chaps at the BMC - I've already paid them good money for worldwide year long trekking travel insurance, if I don't go to Nepal them "Plan B" is likely to be Cambodia which is littered with landmines and doubtless plenty of other dangers as likely to result in claims than the war in Nepal, lets see them assess that risk ;)

[Nick Nepal]

It would help if Matt who can get insured with World Nomads lets people on the forum know where he is from.. are you from Australia or New Zealand? or if not which country ?.. and if not A. or N.Z.are you travelling on to either during your trip?. I was unable to get any detail from your personal profile.

Thanks if you can clear this... it may help a lot of people ...

[kegarne]

Thanks for the tip about QBE yakshaver, they have very reasonably priced insurance for Nepal.

[mattconnock]

So sorry Nick

I am English but live and work in Melbourne having married an Australian girl. My wife and I are on a years trip around the world and we are currently in the UK staying with family.

We are flying from the UK and will return to the UK after our Nepal trip (which is part of a wider trip including China, Tibet and India).

We booked with World Nomads and specifically checked for trekking above 2000m and that they would cover us even though our trip began and ended outside Australia.

Hope this helps.

Matt

[yakshaver]

Yes kegarne, qbe treated me right. Their cheque came two weeks to the day after I filled out the claim.

[Oli]

They (http://www.fco.gov.uk)'ve just revised their travel advisory for Nepal...


We advise against all but essential travel to Nepal as a result of heightened civil unrest and violence in response to the municipal elections, held on 8 February 2006. The situation remains unpredictable and there is a possibility of further violence and disturbances in the aftermath of the elections, including in the run-up to the ten-year anniversary of the People's War on 13 February 2006. We will keep this advice under review and may extend the duration in light of events on the ground.