Experience with The Imaginative Traveller in the UK?

[ChiefBrody]

I'm from the US. I booked a trip through The Imaginative Traveller in the UK. Anyone use this outfit? How were they? Thanks.

[Ralph2]

Check the itinerary and the inclusions. Meals are NOT included, which must mean that you dole out money every day at tea houses. Also you are driving both ways to Pokhara. If there is a road closure, you're outa luck.

And they also have a funny policy of LOCAL PAYMENT (compulsory) payable to your tour leader on arrival. Maybe this is to get around some taxes or regulations, but be sure you know what this includes.

http://www.imaginative-traveller.com/destinations/asia/itinerary.asp?country=25

[Sharon]

Not only that they say public bus to get to the trail head. I either fly or hire a taxi or better quality bus. Now the public bus system, that's where people do die or get injured.

You could go with a guide I use for $35 US a day while trekking. (There are also sites that give recommendations from trekkers about their guides.) That would include all food, accommodation for yourself as well as pay for the guide and porter meeting the Porter's guidelines for weight, pay, insurance etc.

[Unregistered]

This sounds like a very strange operation. Either go with a more upmarket company that uses proper transport and provides all meals or fly to Kathmandu, hire a good guide and go off and have a great trek on your own.

[ChiefBrody]

Maybe I'm missing something. Here is the info for my tour from their site:


Day 1, KATHMANDU Arrive and transfer to hotel. Free day.
Day 2, KATHMANDU Morning walking tour of the market area of Asan, Durbar Square and Swayambunath Temple.
Day 3, PHAKDING (2,600m) Fly to Lukla. Here we organise our loads with porters and Sherpas then set off to Phakding, in the mountains.
Day 4, NAMCHE BAZAR (3,440m) We follow the Dudh Kosi river, passing villages interspersed with magnificent forests of rhododendron, magnolia trees and giant firs to Namche Bazar, the main settlement of the Sherpa area.
Day 5, THAME (3,800m) - NAMCHE BAZAR A day to acclimatise. We hike to Songbuche for superb views of the snow peaks of Teng Kangpoche (6,500m) and Kwangde (6,187m).
Day 6, TYANGBOCHE (TENGBOCHE) (3,800m) From Namche we trek to Khumjung at the foot of sacred Khumbila peak (5,761m). Khumjung Gompa possesses what is said to be the skull of a yeti! Continue to Phunki and Tyangboche for one of the most magnificent views in the world; an awe inspiring panorama of Himalayan giants: Kwangde, Tawache, Everest, Nuptse, Lhotse, Ama Dablam, Kategna and Thamserku.
Day 7, DINGBOCHE (4,300m) Cross the Imja Khola and continue through terraced fields and rolling pastures where yaks graze to Pangboche (3,860m).
Day 8, DINGBOCHE (4,300m) Rest day.
Day 9, LOBUCHE (4,900m) The trail climbs through a grass carpeted valley to Khumbu Glacier and reaches Dughla.
Day 10, KALA PATTAR (5,600m) Climb the Kala Pattar hill, the best vantage point for viewing Mt Everest. Then descend to Gorakshep.
Day 11, EVEREST BASE CAMP (5,300m) From the dry sandy area of Gorakshep, it is a day trek to the Everest Base Camp. Later return to Lobuche via Gorakshep.
Day 12, TYANGBOCHE (3800m) We walk back via Pheriche and Pangboche to Tyangboche.
Day 13, MONJO (2500m) We continue our descent via Namche Bazar to Monjo.
Day 14, LUKLA (2,800m) - Return to Lukla where we spend the night.
Day 15, KATHMANDU Fly from Lukla to Kathmandu. Transfer to hotel.
Day 16, KATHMANDU Free day.
Day 17, KATHMANDU Tour ends.

http://www.imaginative-traveller.com/images/factfinder.gif Maximum Group Size 18
Trek Grade C Strenuous
Arrival Transfer Airport transfer to hotel day 1
Fully Escorted By Imaginative Traveller trek leader, services of porters
Transport Private coach
Flights Kathmandu to Lukla return
Activities 12 day trek
Accommodation 4 nights simple hotels, 12 nights teahouse lodges during trek
Meals Not included. Allow US$10-15 per day
Entrance Fees Park fees and trekking permit included. Other entrance fees not included. Allow US$15
LOCAL PAYMENT (compulsory) payable to your tour leader on arrival. Click here (javascript:openWindow('../lp_popup.asp','527','400','550','400')) for details of our Local Payments

[Sharon]

You didn't say what trek and we looked at their info on Annapurna. 18 is a monster group and I am not sure how you could even remotely have any nice interaction with the Nepali along the way. What are the arrangements when one or two of more of the 18 are all suffering AMS at different times? Go small with your own guide and porter. Really enjoy the tea house operators and other small groups of trekkers. Meet more diverisfied fellow travellers as they walk in their small groups, rather than being this monster group moving up and down the trail. You'll never get to know the real Nepal on that trip. You'll also adjust the itinerary for an extra night in Namchee should you require it. I have trekked 4 times. In groups of 3 or just me. It is a wonderful experience getting to know your guide and porter and the information they wiull share with you about their life.

[ian2u]

They seem to have put together a very down market package, which is crazy in Nepal when a lot of the good or up market facilities dont cost much. The comment "simple hotels" sets the alarm bells ringing when Kathmandu is amongst the cheapest places in the world for 4 star and better hotels. The max group size should be 12 and even then I wouldnt want to join one with more than 8 unless there were 2 leaders. 18 is ridiculous although their trip notes state 15.

I would be concerned whether the recent "local payment" and increasing group size implies cash flow problems. Your airfare from the States is going to cost more than the trek in total which is back to front. Imaginative traveller Company registration number is fairly new, although they claim to be in business since 1991.

The detailed trip notes state that you get one trekking bag between TWO people and only 10Kg allowed each which is crazy.

There is nothing on their web site to say that they are ABTA or ATOL bonded - what happens if they go bust etc.

Sorry to be so down when I guess you have booked it although presumably only the deposit.

But Barge poles and Touch are words that spring to my mind.

[unregistered]

I arranged for a guide cum porter and it comes to around $42 per day ( 16 days) trek to EBC starting on 8th May.

It includes flts to Lukla and back, guide flt and porter. Lodging, breakfast, lunch and dinner. All park fees are also included.

The guide was mentioned in this forum and I had verified with his previous client.

The itinerary is as follows
KTD-PAK-MONJO-NAMCHE-NAMCHE-KUMJUNG-TYANGBOCHE-TYANGBOCHE-DINGBOCHE-DINGBOCHE-DUGHLA-LOBUJE-GORAKSHEP/KALAPATTAR-GP/EBC/PERICHE-NAMCHE-LUKLA and back to KTD

If you need any further info please feel free to contact me at jijubi99@yahoo.co.uk

wishes

Suresh

[ChiefBrody]

Lousy hotels. Too many people in group. Food should be included. Not enough room for stuff. I'll never get to know the local people. Implications of company cash flow problems and Barge poles.

Looks like I'm in for a real crappy time and a lousy experience. Thanks for the feedback.

[Sharon]

Well cancel and go with a guide and porter recommended by one of the group here who have trekked many times. Why lurk here, book your trip and THEN ask for opinions?

That trip is a recipe for porter abuse as well. Check out www.hec.org so you can see how they should be paid and treated.

[ChiefBrody]

Well cancel and go with a guide and porter recommended by one of the group here who have trekked many times. Why lurk here, book your trip and THEN ask for opinions?

That trip is a recipe for porter abuse as well. Check out www.hec.org (http://www.hec.org/) so you can see how they should be paid and treated.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I didn't ask for your opinion. I asked if anyone had had any personal experience with Imaginative Traveller. If so, could they tell me about it. You took it upon yourself to form a negative opinion of them based on a visit to their web site, with no first hand knowledge about them. Now you have them possibly abusing porters. I forgot to mention that I actually booked this trip through Adventure Center in California, who uses Imaginative Traveller. So even if IT folded, I'm covered here in the states. I may not be an expert on trekking in Nepal, but I know my way around the block.

Maybe all of your negative views are correct, maybe they aren't. I just don't know how you could appear to know so much about a company that you have no experience with save for a web site visit.


Since I'm going no matter what, unless Nepal is shut down, my OP was more out of curiosity than anything else. And my comments about the trip being crappy was facetious.I couldn't care less about cheap hotels, local food or groups of 18. If I did care, I wouldn't have booked the trip as those things are listed on their web site. My primary concern is their reliablitly. Do they deliver what they say they are going to deliver. In any case, whatever comes my way, good or bad, I'm going to make the best of it, and will probably love the hell out of it! That's what makes a good traveler.

[Sharon]

Check the HEC site so you know what is acceptable and make sure your porters are treated well. 99% don't treat them well and that includes many large companies.

[Charles]

I have just returned from a trip with the imaginative traveller to India. They are not a crap organisation. We had the best staff, the most amazing experiences and would seriously travel with them again. Nothing compared to how we were looked after, the information provided was second to none. The hotels were superb and we booked a budget tour. We feel the money we paid was a bargain for what we got.
Charlie & Sue.

[Unregistered]

Hi everyone,

Hate to spoil the party but I went on an Imaginative Traveller tour in November 2003 and had the best time ever. I didn't actually do the Everest Base Camp trip but was in the Annapurna region which is stunning - still, our guide had trekking Everest as well and raved about it so I imagine that you are in for a good time.

We had a group of 14 - great mix of Aussies, New Zealanders and Brits which made the trip for me. I was travelling on my own as a single female and was nervous about whether I would meet any like minded friends - I'm not still in touch with a couple of them. Its rubbish about not getting to meet 'the real Nepalis' - you trek for maybe 4-5 hours a day; whilst trekking there isn't much chance to meet the locals (or there wasn't for me - I was too exhausted to do anything but trek !) but when you arrive at the tea house then you can do your own thing. Sometimes I was knackered so would just read / play card or relax at the tea house but sometimes I would go out and explore the local village which is when you get to meet people. Nepalis are incredibly friendly and I met some really great people. I had a digital camera which was excellent as it meant that you could take pictures and then show them to the kids (though I nearly got mobbed a few times !).


We used public buses to get to and from Pokhara which were fine - they were old and bumpy and crowded but that was part of the fun - lots of big smart air con buses drove past us but I thought that looked a bit sterile. You don't go to Nepal to stay cooped up in a private bus.

We stayed at a hotel in Pokhara and one in Kathmandu - both were simple but if you are used to backpacking and staying in dorms rooms then they were almost luxurious - hot water, clean sheets, friendly receptions etc. If you want 4 star then Imaginative Traveller aren't the people to go with.

Not sure about the local payment - this must be something new as we didn't have to pay one, but I went on a tour with Explore recently in China and they have the same system. No biggie, you just pay money to the tour guide when you arrive. It was quite useful for me actually as I was working in a bar and couldn't get the money together for the local payment until just before the tour started so wouldn't have been able to pay in advance.

Anyway, each to their own I say. If you want to travel in a small group of three trekkers or you have the time to spend in Kathmandu arranging your own tour then that's great. If you want to meet people and don't have the time or energy to arrange everything yourself, then an organised tour is probably better.

Have a great time chief - would be great to hear from you when you get back. I'd love to do another trek so if yours is a sucess I might have to get my trekking shoes back on to do Everest !!

[ChiefBrody]

It sounds perfect! For me, part of the experience of a trip like this is not staying in fancy hotels or riding in large new buses. If I want luxury, I'll take a cruise. I figured there would be plenty of time to explore after the daily treks. That's going to be so cool, talking with the locals. It's going to be a great experience.

If you all don't mind, I might PM you with a few other questions. Thanks!

[Unregistered]

Having read through the posts here it seems that everyone is slinging mud but that none of you has actually traveled with The Imaginative Traveller.
Why not check out the forums on their own website and get some first hand answers from people who have traveled with them.
Sackrider

[Sharon]

Lots of hot air from unregistered guests... gotta love the internet!

[George]

Hot air is less dense than cold air. Heat accelerates the motion of the air molecules causing fewer molecules to occupy the same space as a much greater number of molecules do at a lower temperature. With fewer molecules, the hot air has less mass, and therefore is buoyant than an equal volume of colder air.

[ChiefBrody]

3 Sharks meet in the ocean. They talk about the people they recently have eaten. The first one says: I swallowed the Ayatollah yesterday, but the guy had eaten so much garlic I still feel sick. The second shark says: That's nothing pal! I swallowed Boris Jelzin last week and the old guy had so much vodka in him that I'm still drunk. The 3rd shark laughs and said: You lucky guys! I swallowed George W. Bush 3 weeks ago and the guy has so much hot air in his head, I still can't dive!

[ChiefBrody]

http://www.advantexcom.net/~mhmurray/bush.jpg
..........

[yakshaver]

There is of course a matter of preference as to how you trek in Nepal. And preference is influence by personality, as well as knowledge. Sharon has been in Nepal a number of times, and having experienced a number of "modes" of trekking myself, I tend to agree with her...
Having said that, on my first trip I employed a larger "famous" Nepali company. I was happy with the experience, but I did notice the guide and porters were pretty badly treated.
Then I employed Thirdpole, a couple of times , and was quite happy with the whole thing.
In my last couple of treks I have employed an independent guide and porter, as my treks did not lend themselves to bigger group trekking.

Taliking about how various agencies treat porters, basically the larger western based ones have been the worst offenders. Not much has changed over the years. I April last year at Gokyo I saw the porters of a couple of very well known adventure tour operators carrying very heavy and cumbersome loads. Definitely around 40 kg.

I know Deepak Mahat, who's the current president of the Trekking Agencies Associations of Nepal, has got together a comitee formulating decent minimum wages for porters. I don't know where this is at right now, but they were keen to have something in place, and have agencies adhering to the newly agreed wages receiving some identification. I hope this happens soon.

Anyone who's interested in a comparison between the various modes of trekking please read the link on the home page of TREKINFO titled: Should you employ a guide and porter?
which the undersigned has put together three years ago for Andrees the Ruiter. Some of the stuff is a bit dated now, and just reading it again, there are some horrid typos but still, it would be useful for people pondering which way they should go on trek.

http://www.nepal-dia.de/int__England/EV_porter/ev_porter.html

[ChiefBrody]

Well, I better not see any abuse of those people while I'm around. Someone will get pounded. I've heard the Nepalese are very warm and friendly people. Disrespect like that is abhorent, and I WILL NOT tolerate it. Can you tell me what kind of abuse it is. Yelling? Talking down to them? Physical?

There is of course a matter of preference as to how you trek in Nepal. And preference is influence by personality, as well as knowledge. Sharon has been in Nepal a number of times, and having experienced a number of "modes" of trekking myself, I tend to agree with her...
Having said that, on my first trip I employed a larger "famous" Nepali company. I was happy with the experience, but I did notice the guide and porters were pretty badly treated.
Then I employed Thirdpole, a couple of times , and was quite happy with the whole thing.
In my last couple of treks I have employed an independent guide and porter, as my treks did not lend themselves to bigger group trekking.

Taliking about how various agencies treat porters, basically the larger western based ones have been the worst offenders. Not much has changed over the years. I April last year at Gokyo I saw the porters of a couple of very well known adventure tour operators carrying very heavy and cumbersome loads. Definitely around 40 kg.

I know Deepak Mahat, who's the current president of the Trekking Agencies Associations of Nepal, has got together a comitee formulating decent minimum wages for porters. I don't know where this is at right now, but they were keen to have something in place, and have agencies adhering to the newly agreed wages receiving some identification. I hope this happens soon.

Anyone who's interested in a comparison between the various modes of trekking please read the link on the home page of TREKINFO titled: Should you employ a guide and porter?
which the undersigned has put together three years ago for Andrees the Ruiter. Some of the stuff is a bit dated now, and just reading it again, there are some horrid typos but still, it would be useful for people pondering which way they should go on trek.

http://www.nepal-dia.de/int__England/EV_porter/ev_porter.html

[ian2u]

Chief,
You will I am sure have a great time in Nepal and you should blend in nicely with the Nepalese.

[yakshaver]

There is a good site, ChiefBrody, about porters in Nepal, their plight etc. but I don't have it handy right now...
What goes on is not so much physical abuse, as some kind of almost slavery in some cases. I repeat, in SOME cases.
An independent foreign tourist (let's call her "trekker" - it makes us feel better...) pays a porter somewhere between 6-12 US dollars per day. A guide who wants to get an extra porter for his clients on trek might pay him 300-350 rupees (about 4.5-5.5 USD). The agencies usually pay not more than 3-4 dollars. Porters working for Nepalis may earn even less.
A porter may double the money he earns by... doubling the load. Hence you see porters carryng huge loads, up to 60 kg or even more sometimes. No, they are not superhumans. Appart from acclimatization, where they hold an advantage over tourists, the only thing which keeps them going is that they have no alternative. They must feed themselves and their families with the meagre money they make, by carrying heavy loads up and down hills.
Still, people have argued against the economic "balance" existing in Nepal, and all of a sudden paying too much for services simply to assuge our sensitve western consciences... They have a point, as the issues in Nepal run deeper than me, all of a sudden paying my porter 100 dollars for the hell of it.
The other issue is that some large companies really don't care about porters. They sometime pick low altitude people, who have no experience of the mountains, and who are ill equiped, and expect them to do the job. Porters have died in such situations sometimes. It is the tourist's responsibility to check the porters have adequate footwear, warm clothing, and that they have shelter for sleeping at night. If you are unhappy about these issues, it's usefull to take them up with the leader of the trek.

That's why I was pleased to hear a few months ago that Deepak was trying to get something going as far as standard minimum wages and conditions for the porters employed by Nepali trekking agencies. If this would apply to the big foreign tour operators, I have no idea.

One should not get the idea that the industry is rife with bad porter or guide treatment. It's not. Probably the majority of agencies are doing the right thing by their employees. But I imagine that with the number of tourists going down, and the rate of uneployement high amongst porters, it would be easy to exploit the situation...and the porters.

That is one of the reasons why it is good to err on the generosity side when you tip your porters and your guide at the end of the trek. Somewhere between 10-20 percent of the price you paid is reasonable, to be distributed among them. Make sure you do it individually, giving to everyone their tip. Don't give to the guide to distribute to the porters...

[Sharon]

www.hec.org
There is information here about the porter's plight. There is much verbal (talking Down) as well as physical abuse. They carry loads that are in excess of 40 kilo as well as inappropriate clothing, footwear etc. In the larger groups they tend to keep you separate from the staff and I met several groups that had no idea that the fire in the distance under a large rock were their porters cooking potatoes in a fire for dinner.

The industry is suffering due to the drop in tourism with many companies cutting costs. the first place they cut is the porters wages and increase loads.

I met some Nepalis in these very horrible circumstances on a trek in the Fall of 2003. We have since become good friends and I have trekked with them 2 more times. We deal direct with no company- the porters and staff all get paid more, lighter loads and I pay less as well.

If I could afford to I would just trek and educate people over there.