Gokyo/EBC/Island Peak Itinerary

[notfound]

After reading lots of helpful post on this forum I have compiled a first draft of itinerary I would like to do with my fiancee at the turn of March and April next year, and am curious what are your opinions on it:

Day 1 - Kathmandu flight to Lukla (2840m), trek to Phakding (2610m). 3 hours.
Day 2 - Phakding to Namche Bazaar (3440m). 6 hours.
Day 3 - A rest and acclimatization day in and around Namche Bazar.
Day 4 - Namche Bazaar to Mong La (3800m). 4 hours.
Day 5 - Mong La to Dole (4090m). 3 hours.
Day 6 - Dole to Machhermo (4410m). 5 hours.
Day 7 - Machermo to Gokyo Lakes (4750m). 4-5 hours. Late afternoon Gokyo Ri ascent for sunset (5480m).
Day 8 - Fifth and Sixth Lake, Nameless Fangs (5800m). Possibly evening descent to Tagnak/Dragnag (saving 1 day). 4 hours.
Day 9 - Gokyo to Tagnak/Dragnag (4700m). 4 hours.
Day 10 - Tagnak to Cho La pass (5420m), descend to Dzongla (4830m). 9 hours.
Day 11 - Dzonglha to Lobuche (4910m) and Gorak Shep (5160m). 6 hours.
Day 12 - Gorak Shep to Everest Base Camp (5340m), back to Gorak Shep. 7 hours.
Day 13 - Gorak Shep to Kala Patthar (5643m), descent to Lobuche (4930m). 7 hours.
Day 14 - Lobuche to Kongma La pass (5535m), descent to Chukkung (4730m). 8 hours.
Day 15 - Chukkung to Island Peak Base Camp (5200m). 4 hours.
Day 16 - Island Peak ascent (6189m), return to Chhukhung. 8-10 hours.
Day 17 - Chhukhung to Pangboche (3901m). Visit to Memorial Place in Dhugla.
Day 18 - Pangboche to Namche Bazaar (3440m). Visit to Tengbuche Monastery.
Day 19 - Namche Bazaar to Lukla (2800m).

This covers only the trekking part, there would be also few days before/after the trek to see KTM, go to KTM Valley etc. (Probably rather after, just in case if there were any flight delays betweek KTM and Lukla.)

Being on Kilimanjaro earlier this year I know we shouldn't have too much problems with altitude, still though this itinerary should be pretty good from the acclimatization point of view?

Few other things to check if possible:

- I am thinking of getting a guide and a porter (one should probably be enough?) for the whole trek - arranged online in advance before we even get there. Going to KTM for the first time I believe it would be better (and easier) to have them?

- Island Peak probably should be pre-arranged somehow too, so that we could join a bigger group, get required climbing equipment etc. - but this is something to sort out with our guide as I believe? (We do not have one chosen yet, I was planning to start looking for a guide after confirming the itinerary, but if anybody has previous good experienced with your guides I would highly appreciate recommendations!)

We would be getting some equipment in KTM/Namche anyway (sleeping mats, walking poles etc), so we could stock on climbing stuff too then.

- We do not have any climbing experience so far, but from what I've read we could have basic training from our guide/sherpa after arriving to Chukkung/IP BC?

Thanks for any help and advice!

[notfound]

Also, in terms of boots - I'm still hesitating between Nepal Trek Evo Gtx (http://www.lasportiva.com/catalogue/catalogo.php?cat=1&cod3=338&Language=EN) and popular yellow Nepal Evo Gtx (http://www.lasportiva.com/catalogue/catalogo.php?cat=1&cod3=280&Language=EN).

Which one you think would be a better solution for the trek as above?

[Escher]

You've got a name mixed up there. Tengboche is the roue up to base camp. It's Namche to Mong or Phortse Tenga then Dole. Not Tengboche.

Otherwise the itinerary looks fine. I love Gokyo so I might spend an extra day there going up the glacier, but just play it by ear. For instance you may arrive there then go up Gokyo ri that evening then up the glacier the next day.

I wouldn't bother with Chukkung Ri on the way down. You'll be spent from the climb and the views will be much better on IP, Chukkung Ri won't give you any extra. Make sure you are very well hydrated before you go for the climb. Concentrate on the few days before on drinking a lot. It'll make a big difference. It is certainly possible to climb from BC but some people fix a high camp. I didn't but 1200m up and down in a day is pretty taxing.

If it were me I'd send the climbing guide and porter (with climbing gear) to BC and meet them there and carry my own stuff for the trek as you won't need much and it is very easy to find your way around the trek part apart from the passes anyway.

I like to trek in trainers and would send my climbing boots to BC and wear trainers for the rest. There is certainly no need to wear full on climbing boots for the whole trek. Heavy, hot, uncomfortable and pointless. The trails are pretty good. But if you want ankle support then any old broken in walking boots that fit will be fine. You can wear them up to the snowline at 5700m and then change. That's a lot easier than wearing 2kgs of extra weight on your feet when you don't need to.

[rich]

Yeah, as Escher says take Tengpoche out on the way in as you return via this way instead. The lodges there are not great anyway.

[notfound]

Ah yes, you're right, thank you guys!

So, Tengboche changed Phortse Tenga (as it is lower than Moung La, so better for acclimatization process).

Also changed Dingboche to Pangboche on a way down on day 17, as I think Dingboche was too close from Chhukung for a day trek, and this new version will leave more time for visiting Tangboche Monastery on day 18. :)

Edit:

On the other hand... Phortse Tenga is really close to Dole... Considering going from Namche Bazaar directly to Dole, but wouldn't it be too big change in heights for one of the first days?

[notfound]

Ah, and a question on day 8 - as originally I thought that Gokyo Ri and fifth lake are the same thing, but it seems they are not. ;) (Ok, maybe not the same, but that 5th is on the way to Ri...)

Is it possible to do a kind of round-trek, to Gokyo Ri and then 5th lake from there on the same day?

[Escher]

Namche is 3450m ish and Mong la is 3800m. Phortse Tenga is 3650m ish. The lodges at Mong La are better I'd stay there. Dole is 4100m and too high straight from Namche depending on how you acclimatise.

Gokyo village is by the third lake. What I've done is arrive at Gokyo at lunchtime had some lunch and a sleep then gone up Gokyo ri for the sunset. Then gone up to the fifth and sixth lake and nameless fangs the next day, then to the bottom of Cho La that evening. It depends how you feel. If you feel out of sorts then rest. If it is cloudy in gokyo then wait for it to clear, even if you need an extra day or two, you can make up for it on the way down. It is not to be missed, the view in clear weather from Gokyo is fantastic, even 10 minutes from the village up the moraine has a sensational view. I've met people who have been up there for one night and missed everything due to cloud. It is worth waiting it out if it is like that.

[notfound]

Namche is 3450m ish and Mong la is 3800m. Phortse Tenga is 3650m ish. The lodges at Mong La are better I'd stay there. Dole is 4100m and too high straight from Namche depending on how you acclimatise.


Thanks again Escher! Yes, that probably would be a better idea to take it slowly. Mong La it is then!

Gokyo village is by the third lake. What I've done is arrive at Gokyo at lunchtime had some lunch and a sleep then gone up Gokyo ri for the sunset. Then gone up to the fifth and sixth lake and nameless fangs the next day, then to the bottom of Cho La that evening. It depends how you feel. If you feel out of sorts then rest. If it is cloudy in gokyo then wait for it to clear, even if you need an extra day or two, you can make up for it on the way down. It is not to be missed, the view in clear weather from Gokyo is fantastic, even 10 minutes from the village up the moraine has a sensational view. I've met people who have been up there for one night and missed everything due to cloud. It is worth waiting it out if it is like that.

This sounds like a really good idea! And if everything works out fine (I mean, the weather is nice and no problems with acclimatization) we could cut down one more day here... To be decided on the spot, but definitely worth taking into consideration!

Out of sheer curiosity - if you had to choose between Gokyo Ri and 4th/5th Lake with Nameless Fangs - which one would you go for?

[scottandjoy]

The first thing that jumped out at me with your itinerary is the lack of a "spare day" at Island Peak base camp or Chukhung if the weather is bad.

If it was me I would plan for four days to walk from Chukhung to Lukla and then have the option to use one of those days at Island Peak if necessary.

I didn't have any previous climbing experience and I summited relatively easily, but having said that I don't think I would have if it wasn't for an extremely experienced and helpful climbing sherpa who did the little things like taking his gloves off in the dark at -15 degrees to help me get my crampons on, and "running" up and down the 45 degree snow slopes helping with ropes etc. Not sure if I'm supposed to mention company names on the forum so PM me if you want the details of the guide/company I went with.
cheers
Scott

[yakshaver]

A couple of aspects perhaps not touched on yet. You do need a special permit for climbing Island Peak (Imja Tse), and a Climbing Guide, a guide registered to climb trekking peaks like Island Peak, Mera etc.
Your guide or agency should look after these issues, but there are higher costs involved for these, and you need to budget for them.

Secondly, while climbing Killimanjaro you might not have altitude sickness, this is not a guarantee it will not happen. AMS is a very unpredictable condition. I have had it on the first trek, then was never affected by it again (not to any debilitating extent that is... you're ALWAYS affected by altitude when up over 3000-3500m...). Still I do not take it for granted, as I have seen people who've not been affected in their first couple of trekks - on of them crossing Thorung La 5400m, all of a sudden being very sick in Namche at 3500m a couple of years later.

Chosing between Gokyo Ri and 5-6th Lake area? Tough choice! If someone would put a gun to my head and force me to chose, I would be inclined for the second option, ever so slightly. Simply because you're in a different world, if that were an acceptable idea - given that you're already in an amazing area as it is. Those who've been there know what I mean. You are in the middle of this vast expanse of morraines and glaciers, with Everest towering in all it's glory accross this expanse, and all the other peaks surrounding it, a bit like the Annapurna Sanctuary only bigger. Mind you, the view form Gokyo Ri is amazing too. What would tilt it for me in favour of 5th lake is the fact that you can go on exploring, climbing up towards various nameless (for me) ridges with more amazing views etc.

Ah, and another thing. While people like Escher could easily climb Gokyo Ri (and perhaps Everest, and Makalu) the same afternoon as arriving from Machermo - I have not tried it, simply because every time I have been to Gokyo (three times in total) I have been totally buggered, and had to postpone furtner serious exploration for the following day - when I felt much better. All I was typically able to do that afternoon was going up on the ridge behind the village. Last time in Jan 2008 we had three of our party going up with one of the porters in the afternoon after arrving from Machermo for the sunset trip up Gokyo Ri. Two of them could not join us to the 5th lake the following day, they were done for... As I've been on Gokyo on one of my previous trips, and I am a lazy person, it did not even cross my mind to try the afternoon trip. But to each their own.

The main thing with trekking at those altitudes is needing to maintain a perspective of flexibility. Sometimes things don't work out as planned. And the more things you try to cram in (especially if you have a limited amount of time...) the more there is a likelyhood that you have to give up one or two goals, while on the ground. If you have plenty of time (like 7-10 days up your sleeve given what you want to do), there's usually no issue. But with Island Peak, Gokyo, crossing Cho La etc all included... All I am saying is: be flexible and don't get to worked up if the stars do not align at some stage. Enjoy the trip anyway. If there is truth in the saying that "the journey is more important than the destination", then it definitely applies to trekking in the Himalayas.

[thesilvertops]

The views from Gokyo Ri are pretty good but you won't enjoy that feeling of remoteness that you will get up at 5th Lake and beyond. The sheer size of the landscape that you're in and in particular, the glacier is just awe-inspring. But you must not go alone and you must ensure that others know where you are going and when you will be back. If I was going to Gokyo now, I would go up to 5th lake, and perhaps beyond, first but then I have been up Gokyo Ri a couple of times.

http://www.pbase.com/thesilvertops/image/61436744/original.jpg

Cho Oyu on left, Everest on extreme right.

[andyoxus]

That's a great pic!

Just a word on the sixth lakes (as opposed to the fifth lake): it's pretty amazing up there. Here's a pic I took - really doesn't do it justice:

http://www.stemhaus.com/firefox/foxclocks/news/wp-content/gallery/salpa-arun-to-gokyo-2009/P1000779.jpg

BUT it's really not an easy day trip from Gokyo - doable, but I certainly wouldn't want to tack on Gokyo Ri or crossing to Tagnag (sp?). I went on my own as far as it's possible to go, and had the entire area to myself all day, but foolishly didn't take enough food. (Ok, I'd intended to go only the fifth lake, but couldn't resist it.) I crashed pretty hard on the way back, even though I was in pretty good shape.

The 'Knobby View' viewpoint is supposed to be fabulous, and even though it overlooks the sixth lakes, it's a fair bit closer if I recall correctly. Again, I think seeing Knobby View and the sixth lakes in one day sounds _hard_ - I wonder if anyone's done this. I didn't go up because I was on my own and the trail sounds a little 'interesting'.

EDIT: Mr Tops says

'The views from Gokyo Ri are pretty good but you won't enjoy that feeling of remoteness that you will get up at 5th Lake and beyond. The sheer size of the landscape that you're in and in particular, the glacier is just awe-inspring. But you must not go alone and you must ensure that others know where you are going and when you will be back. If I was going to Gokyo now, I would go up to 5th lake, and perhaps beyond, first but then I have been up Gokyo Ri a couple of times.'

I couldn't agree more, including the bit about going alone. I was not wise - there's some significant boulder hopping if you miss the trail, and it's quite possible to break a leg. The sense of remoteness was something I don't think I'll ever forget. It's also worth noting that going up here means spending a long day high up - the sixth lakes are 5150m or so, and Knobby View is not far off 5500m (I think). So it's probably not wise to head up there the day after reaching Gokyo, unless you've already been to EBC or Chukkung.

By the way, Knobby View is the dark brown peak just to the right of Cho Oyu in silvertops' photo; it's just beyond the fifth lake. The small peak to the left of Cho Oyu in my photo is just beyond the sixth lakes, and looked walkable when I was there, but I don't know anything about it. You'd really have to camp to try it, I would have thought.

More of my photos, including some more above Gokyo here:

http://www.stemhaus.com/firefox/foxclocks/news/2009/12/06/back-to-nepal-part-i-salpa-arun-to-gokyo-october-2009/

Andy

[Edgewood]

WOW. Those photos take my breath away. Thanks!

[andyoxus]

I thought I'd chip in on the itinerary too. I've pretty much done exactly this route once or twice, barring Island Peak.

> Day 1 - Kathmandu flight to Lukla (2840m), trek to Phakding (2610m). 3 hours.
> Day 2 - Phakding to Namche Bazaar (3440m). 6 hours.

I think it's much less than six hours. For comparison, Lukla to Namche is doable in a day without too much problem for those who've come in via Jiri or Tumlingtar. But of course you shouldn't do that!

> Day 3 - A rest and acclimatization day in and around Namche Bazar.
> Day 4 - Namche Bazaar to Mong La (3800m). 4 hours.
> Day 5 - Mong La to Dole (4090m). 3 hours.
> Day 6 - Dole to Machhermo (4410m). 5 hours.
> Day 7 - Machermo to Gokyo Lakes (4750m). 4-5 hours. Late afternoon Gokyo Ri ascent for sunset (5480m).

All cool except I agree with Mr Shaver that if you're not 100% with the altitude (and who knows if you will be)/not 100% well, getting up Gokyo Ri would be too much. And I suspect you'll come down with a wicked headache anyway. Gokyo Ri is only 5360m I think.

> Day 8 - Fifth and Sixth Lake, Nameless Fangs (5800m). Possibly evening descent to Tagnak/Dragnag (saving 1 day). 4 hours.

As I mentioned, the sixth lake is a _full_ day on its own. I went most of the way up the Nameless Fangs (aka Nameless Towers - just beyond the fourth lake, right?) a long time ago - it was gruelling at those altitudes. EDIT: just noticed that Escher recommends this itinerary - I would consider doing all that in one day EXTREMELY demanding, and beyond a lot of people. I consider myself a strong, fast trekker, but I wouldn't want to have to do that. (Possible exception: if you've already been at EBC/up Imja Tse, and are fully acclimatised and very fit).

I think you're trying to do too much (I want to say 'way' too much), and if something goes wrong (sickness, bad weather) you have no margin for error at all. If at all possible, stay in Gokyo for three nights.

> Day 9 - Gokyo to Tagnak/Dragnag (4700m). 4 hours.

I think this is only 1.5-2 hours? I would do it at the end of a day (e.g. visit 5th lake, then down to Tagnag).

> Day 10 - Tagnak to Cho La pass (5420m), descend to Dzongla (4830m). 9 hours.
> Day 11 - Dzonglha to Lobuche (4910m) and Gorak Shep (5160m). 6 hours.
> Day 12 - Gorak Shep to Everest Base Camp (5340m), back to Gorak Shep. 7 hours.
> Day 13 - Gorak Shep to Kala Patthar (5643m), descent to Lobuche (4930m). 7 hours.
> Day 14 - Lobuche to Kongma La pass (5535m), descent to Chukkung (4730m). 8 hours.

Sounds good. If I remember rightly, the non-pass days aren't this long. Kongma La is _great_.

> Day 15 - Chukkung to Island Peak Base Camp (5200m). 4 hours.
> Day 16 - Island Peak ascent (6189m), return to Chhukhung. 8-10 hours.

No idea!

> Day 17 - Chhukhung to Pangboche (3901m). Visit to Memorial Place in Dhugla.
> Day 18 - Pangboche to Namche Bazaar (3440m). Visit to Tengbuche Monastery.
> Day 19 - Namche Bazaar to Lukla (2800m).

Sounds good. (Aside: I was by sheer chance in Tengboche in 2003 for the 50th Anniversary of Tensing and Hillary's first ascent of Everest. There was a big puja and all kinds of other events, which seemed unmissable, but basically meant we had to walk from Tengboche to Lukla in a day AND get there before 4pm to reconfirm our flights; we did it, but it was not something I'd want to repeat!)

Andy

[notfound]

Wow. Thank you guys, really appreciate all the answers!

Now, to clarify few things:

Regarding "spare day", which some of you have mentioned - this plan is just a perfect-world version, which of course can be adjusted if needed. What I was trying to do was to have kind of a dream-plan, general guidelines, which I would like to follow if possible (in terms of places to go, things to do, time to spend), but I will have no problem with spending few more days on track, changing route or excluding some elements (well, but definitely not all!) if need be.

@yakshaver - yes, I realize I need all these things (permit, registered guide etc), thank you though. This forum really is fabulous source of information, and after having read lots of topics here I think I have a pretty good (even if theoretical) knowledge of all the things involved.

Also, I know I don't really know what to expect when I get to higher altitude. Hoping that everything will be fine, but mentally prepared for taking things slowly, waiting few extra days before going further up if needed etc. To tell the truth I'd definitely prefer to not see one or two highlights then get seriously sick, have to go down and do not see anything else.

Gokyo & co. Reading your descriptions and looking at the photos I've almost felt in love. Fifth/sixth lake over Gokyo Ri for me definitely, still though would try to do both if possible. Perhaps I'd just drop Nameless Fangs... Well, time will show. Need to be there first. Anyway, seems that more than one days spent there would definitely be a good idea.

@andyoxus - I've taken all altitudes and trekking times from websites over the web. Noticed a funny thing by the way, where different sites pretty often were giving completely different altitudes for the same place - the biggest difference I've seen was over 1000m! Interesting...

Re Tengboche, if everything works out the way I'd like it to (and assuming we really go there in March/April, as I'm still not completely sure about this, lots of factors to it), I would try to reach Tengboche on our way down just for Mani Rimdu (full moon) festival, from what I've read about it could be quite interesting (and quite crowdy too). If anyone seen it so far, what are your impressions? Worth manipulating our schedule to get there on time?

[andyoxus]

Aha! I think everyone's been taking your itinerary as literal. If you have the flexibility to throw in days here and there, perfect! Unless you're extremely unlucky you'll be able to wait out bad weather, altitude issues, stick around longer in places you really like etc.

Re altitude sickness specifically, it's always a hot topic of conversation, but it's something to respect rather than fear - if you have time on your hands it can't ruin your trip. (And it's kind of fun being in the thin air - just adds to the other-worldliness of it all.)

Re specific alititudes, there's even disagreement on some of the 8000-ers. For less rarefied peaks there are often multiple heights given. Bloggers are notoriously incompetent, I've found. I happened to know the (commonly accepted) height of Gokyo Ri off the top of my head, and thought it worth mentioning because it's significant that it's only(!) about 600m up from Gokyo village. I'm guilty of always mentioning 'Trekking in the Everest Region' but as well as being truly fantastic, it's a good source for accurate altitudes, which often come from multiple first-hand GPS readings.

I don't know anything about Mani Rimdu I'm afraid.

Andy

[andyoxus]

Just remembered that I took a short video at Cho Oyu base camp (slightly beyond the sixth lakes - as far as you can reasonably go):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT-46nGjmEI