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Unregistered
13th April 2005, 05:13 AM
yes you can be murdered in Nepal just like anywhere else. The country is not safe regardless of the propaganda you hear.

yakshaver
13th April 2005, 09:32 AM
If you can get murdered in Nepal "just like enywhere else", than everywhere else is not safe either. How about we all stay home and watch TV? But I hear from doctors that this is very unsafe too, as it promotes a sedentary life style, which is very bad for my health: increased cholesterol and blood pressure, diabetes etc.
So I am faced with two very unenviable choices: a) go places, but since nowere else is safe - I can be murdered - this is extremely risky, or b) by stay at home to watch Ophra, MTV or the sports or Adult channels, and die early from one of those diseases.
What do I do? Maybe I will go to see a shrink. If she's good looking, she'll sort me out, I',m sure. They can do anything (for a fee). You'd be amazed! I suggest you do the same.

Unregistered
14th April 2005, 07:38 AM
Thanks for the advise, I'm already on my third viewing of Friends reruns and did not think to watch Oprah. Perhaps I can get some really good makeover Ideas! Some good advise deserves the same. When you go to your good looking shrink not only look into you mother issues. Perhaps you can grow past your self serving, egocentric grandiose reality and find out why the maintanence of being a so called "adventure traveler" is so vital to your identity. Then you can begin to see Nepal for real and not as your privlaged adventure travel theme park.

Peace out Bro.

Pesty
14th April 2005, 07:45 PM
"Peace out bro". You really should heed your own advice. You seem to resent Yakshavers impertinence to tell it from his perspective. Heh it aint compulsory to go to Nepal. Most of us who would like to go back or for the first time are usually interested in seeing things from a different perspective rather than the one we get thrown up on our mass produced media.
As for "adventure travel" you've been reading too many of those brochures in your travel agency.

nihilistic
19th April 2005, 02:17 AM
everything is bad.

yakshaver
21st April 2005, 08:35 AM
:)
but does it swollow? :)
I like nihilistics view. I suppose I have the view of travelling to a) experience, b) learn; c) give something back. In that order. I don't have time in this life to consider the higher philosophical issues and philosophical pros and cons of going or not going to a place. Else I do nothing and go nowhere. I do stuff and think about it later. If I have to ask for forgiveness for what I have done, well... be it so. But I will certainly not die wondering.

Unregistered
26th April 2005, 04:48 AM
:)
but does it swollow? :)
I like nihilistics view. I suppose I have the view of travelling to a) experience, b) learn; c) give something back. In that order. I don't have time in this life to consider the higher philosophical issues and philosophical pros and cons of going or not going to a place. Else I do nothing and go nowhere. I do stuff and think about it later. If I have to ask for forgiveness for what I have done, well... be it so. But I will certainly not die wondering.



Only the privlaged self serving western mind set can come up with thoughts like that

yakshaver
26th April 2005, 05:53 AM
Unregistered,
Are you cowardly or negligent in not saying who you are?
First, you might want to identify yourself. Or yourselves, in case you have dissociative personality disorder. I am not to sure if I am talking to God, the buddha, Ernesto "Che" Guevara, Ed the Goldfish, or indeed Scarlett Johanson. Secondly, you might bring some arguments supporting your statements, rather than just firing darts, and labeling people. This is the usually the resort of one who's got no support for his statements, or the sign for a lazy mind.
Thirdly, if you bother to do the two things above, and are still in the mood for discussing the philosphy of travel, I am ok to reply. Else I consider the subject closed.

Weka
26th April 2005, 07:19 AM
Ooooh, I do love a good soap! La de da de da.

As you can see I'm chilled & relaxed. I've just got back from 6 weeks in Nepal. I ate pizza* and drank beer and climbed to 5416 meters (against my doctor's advice) and lost 8 kilos and rode on elephants and ...... saw a paradise flycatcher and burned-out busses and burned-out hoteliers and stupid, rude, ignorant groups of Israeli’s (plus the odd wonderful one)** and mostly wonderful, warm, engaging, accommodating Nepalis - and not one Maoist.

So stop your effing bitching, you lot, and get saving ‘cause they really need your money at the moment. And you Aussis and Kiwis out there: it is OK to tip!

Speaking of tips; here's one. Get your rabies shots or a damn good travel insurance. I've written the opera on that one!

*Mama Mia's, Cresendo, Fire & Ice, & Roadhouse in that order :-)
** Shalom - I'm Jewish so don't come back to me with the chestnut.

Don Gibson
26th April 2005, 02:45 PM
Quality post Weka! :D

Linwood
26th April 2005, 07:09 PM
Weka, thanks for that post! Sounds like you had a lovely time. Six weeks! You lucky so-and-so!

You really have me curious about the rabies topic, though... care to elaborate?

I have more than a passing interest as I work in the field of public health and deal with rabies in the Mid-Atlantic region of the US (raccoons being the primary vector here, although most Americans who have died of rabies in the last 20 years have died of bat rabies). I know it is a HUGE problem in Asia, compared to the US.

To give an idea of comparative scale, there have been less than 30 human deaths from rabies in the US in the past fifteen years, and 163 human rabies deaths in Nepal in 1999 alone (random WHO stats that came up in a google search), the vast majority of them due to dog rabies. And although the stats don't break it down by age, I'd be willing to bet the majority of those deaths were of children, sadly.

So, it is a good warning to bring up on a trekking board, imo, and is not dealt with sufficiently in any trekking information I've read. Trekkers at least need to be very careful around the many dogs they will encounter on the trail. And watch out for the monkeys, too... they will jump on you if you carry food anywhere near Swoyambhu!

best wishes for a smooth transition back to your regular routine...

Linwood

Weka
27th April 2005, 12:05 AM
And watch out for the monkeys, too... they will jump on you if you carry food anywhere near Swoyambhu!
Linwood
Bingo!

I hopefully will never know if my monkey was rabid or not but the temple has hoards of dogs up there as well ...

Anyway, off I went, bleeding, in a taxi to the CIWEC clinic. http://www.ciwec-clinic.com/
And it's in passing through these doors that travel insurance issue comes into play. I'm not knocking the CIWEC folk; they are simply brilliant - and I'd go nowhere else. But they are a business and they charge top-dollar. Had I had to pay cash for the treatment, I would have had to curtail my trip on day two.

Rabies along with tetanus (and a hotel-full of Israelis) is about as bad as it gets and if you have taken the pre-travel shots & are bitten you will still need further shots. So, again, good travel insurance.

I required four further boosters over the following month. I did this by carrying a series of vaccine packets and several sets of needles around in thermos bag inside a thermos bag. Each time I needed a shot I'd find a medical type en route though the gunk gets all bubbly and weird when cold at high altitude: it's a real hassle.

I was very unlucky in that I got bitten but lucky that I didn't get eaten by a tiger in Chitwan: I think I'm on a roll now! Oh, and I flew Royal Nepal and lived.
:-)

yakshaver
27th April 2005, 11:43 AM
Weka,

How much more exciting can it get??!! I had to deal with CIWEC and they were wonderful. A very pretty and knowledgeable Canadian lady looked after my 10 year old son back in 1999. I also had top insurance and my claims were honoured when I returned to Sydney. This piece of advice is very important. If something happens and you don't have adequate insurance, as well as enough funds in your credit card to cover you until you get home, you will be sorry.

Talking about rabies, in which condition did the dog attack you? Or did you attack it? No seriously. And did you actually see a tiger in Chitwan? I had one jump over the trail behind us in 2000, chasing a deer, but only heard the noise. The guide saw it, but by the time he alerted us the deer and tiger were long gone...

And please give us more details on all stuff trekking, as well as the RNA flight, if it was an international one.

Blue
27th April 2005, 04:07 PM
This discussion thread is certainly an amusing read. I recently spent a fantastic but short two weeks in Nepal, but I have been asking myself - how can I have had such a great time when I witnessed so much suffering? Despite my battle with my conscious, I don't feel I exploited the Nepalese people at all as they are nothing short of desperate for tourists and they were so grateful to have us there.

Despite the tourism dollar, there is also many other ways that we can do to help the Nepalese. My trip was discounted because I raised funds for the Fred Hollows Foundation which runs the Tilganga Eye Centre in Kathmandu. As far as I'm aware this deal is exclusive to Aussies, but I'm sure there would be other programs for other organisations on offer around the world. As a group of these fundraisers, we also gave gifts to a remote village school, and we gave a lot of our clothing and trekking gear away at the end of our trip. I tipped generously - especially at the hotel because I read in the Kathmandu Times that most hotels, including the 5 star ones have not been able to pay their staff for the last 3 mths due to the downturn in tourism.

So, is Nepal worse off for me having visited their beautiful country - I think not, and I would stongly encourage anyone to go. Yes, precautions do need to be taken - I bumped my head several times on low doorways ( a helmet would prevent any injury), and I got attacked by a rogue chook in one of the villages. On a more serious note, I think it's fairly easy to stay out of trouble as a caucasian, as both the kings soldiers and Moaist treated us well. I would have no hesitation about going back there except to buy genuine antibiotics here before I left, as the ones I bought there did nothing and I think they must have just been placebos.

Weka
27th April 2005, 11:30 PM
Weka,
And did you actually see a tiger in Chitwan? I had one jump over the trail behind us in 2000, chasing a deer, but only heard the noise. The guide saw it, but by the time he alerted us the deer and tiger were long gone...
And please give us more details on all stuff trekking, as well as the RNA flight, if it was an international one.
Yes, well! Some guides, I'm told by a guide, always see tigers in Chitwan while others never do. In "Tiger, tiger burning bright", "Forest of the Night" is the operative line, I think: and getting into the forest at night is not easy.

However, I did see the back half of a Sloth Bear, a load of Rhinos, and, as I said, a Paradise Fly Catcher; the prettiest bird I've ever seen. (Actually, I'm into small mammals so stopped over and had my 50th at the Waratah Park in Sydney amongst the Pademelons, Potoroos and Bettongs).

Incidentally, the night I before I left Sauhara, a couple of wild elephants crossed the Rapti River looking for females and flattened two houses in frustration. Another reason for travel insurance :-)

Trekking was good. Did the AC: Besisahar to Jomsom having walked Pokhara to Jomsom and back in the past. The La was tough and mostly snow-covered so getting down took a long time. I didn't use a porter till Base Camp and then a bunch of us, including a chap with an injured ankle, hired two to take our gear to the top. Mistake: should have had them carry the gear into Muktinath.

My advice would be to do it very slowly. If you have an airline-flu, wait till the symptoms are over or, like me, the first few days will be miserable. There is no point in hurrying. Stop off a lot and smell the roses. Hire a porter if you need to and tip well. Spend a few days in Manang: AMS really can be a bitch. You folk all know this anyway.
Here are a few snaps I complied for my family.
http://www.davidantonyclark.com/dacnepal05.htm

So, is Nepal worse off for me having visited their beautiful country - I think not, and I would stongly encourage anyone to go. Yes, precautions do need to be taken - I bumped my head several times on low doorways ( a helmet would prevent any injury), and I got attacked by a rogue chook in one of the villages. On a more serious note, I think it's fairly easy to stay out of trouble as a caucasian, as both the kings soldiers and Moaist treated us well. Yes, yes, and yes. Well said.
Thanks all.

yakshaver
28th April 2005, 08:00 AM
Yes, I know the stories with the tiger... In our case we turned back on the unsealed road, about 20-30 metres, where whe've just stepped half a minute before... And saw the distinct and dynamic looking marks of on the ground. We've heard the two "woshhhes" just before. So I tend to believe the guide in this case. Still, you could be right, who knows...

By the way, I am with the wild elephants. I tend to flatten houses and leap small appartment buildings when I search for females too... And as I am getting past 40, I notice I have to do this to an increasing degree. Such is life, as Ned Kelly said.

Your advice for taking it easy is also useful. I had a companion once who was keen to start the trekk earlier than we planned (the very next day after arriving in KTD) simply because he could not handle the intesity of Thamel, or KTD in general. Funnily enough, he's been there subsequently and can't have enough of KTD and the valley now. People are funny like that. Sometimes this phenomenon happens even in marriages, or other long term relationships, like if you keep goats around the house.

Very nice pics!

Don Gibson
28th April 2005, 03:19 PM
Good to see Mr Blake turing up in a topic (tiger, tiger burning bright etc)!

The Nepalese Government said at the beginning of this month that since january, they had killed 100,000 stray dogs to help combat rabies. Certainly my friends out there were commenting on the dogs barking at night less and less.