Langtang in winter - which way?

[Escher]

If you were going to trek from Sundarijal to Syabru Bensi (or in reverse) via Gosainkund in early winter, which way would you go? There will be a risk that there will be too much snow or the lodges won't be open across the Laurebina Yak pass so which would you rather explore: up to Kyangin Gompa or Helambu?

- I'd prefer not to have to carry camping gear even if it is just bivvy, stove and mat (due to having 8 tonnes of camera kit) and generally don't take porter(s) if I can avoid it

- I did the Helambu circuit in 2000

- I pretty much hate long bus journeys and don't relish two times 10 hours of hell (I guess there is no way to fly out from Dunche?)

So what would you do? Has anyone been over the Laurebina Yak pass in December and can share your experience? Anyone been on the Dhunche road recently and has it improved?

I am erring towards the Langtang valley despite the vomit inducing journey as I think there are more extension options if you can't get over the pass, whereas Helambu will be standard loop without much chance to extend. Am I right?

Alternatives (non-camping, non-guided) are Gokyo (again) or Annapurna Sanctuary (only been as far as Chhomrong) in a 3 week trip door to door (UK).

Any ideas?

[rich]

Hey Escher
Gosainkund is great - but perhaps your best option is up the Langtang Valley which may well be clear or snow all the way up and quiet and relaxed, with perhaps the Tamang Heritage Trail area as a backup (worth a look). Surely always a lodge open in each major village. Thats my 50c.

Sometimes you can catch a cheap jeep back to KTM from Syabru (for say NR1000). Prices out of KTM a very expensive for jeep option. The road is not too bad - still rough between Dhunche and Syabru and beyond.

[rich]

-Deleted by author-

[Boulia]

I agree with Rich. In 07 i was able to get a return jeep to KTM for a very reasonable price from Dunche. As for the bus - I certainly didn't enjoy the ride down to Syabru Besi. That was Feb 07 and I was blocked with snow above Sing Gompa but that was a bad period as you may recall with reports of snow in KTM at that time. Also about 2-3 foot of snow at Kyagin Gompa.

[Escher]

Thanks guys. Langtang valley it is. Lots more scope for exploration whether we can get over to Helambu or not. In all likelihood it will be alright before Christmas in regards to snow and lodge closures but as always we'll play it by ear. I just hope we can go this time as I really feel the need!

[rich]

Did I ever send you my guide for the Tamang Heritage Trail? (probably takes up to say 5 days depending on which route you prefer). I hear there has been significant road building going on between Syabru and the Tibetan border in the last year.

[cyclingpaul]

I took the bus from Syabru Bensi to KTM in Autumn 2008 and it was very very slow and crowded. The upper stretch of road was in very bad condition from Dunche upwards, with bus crawling along at walking pace or less. In retrospect I should have got together with some other trekkers and hired a jeep or caught one of the jeeps hired from Kathmandu that was returning that day or the next. On the way down, if you have a lodge in mind in Syabru Bensi you could call ahead from say Lama Hotel ( there was mobile signal there ) and get the owner to ask around.

Taking the bus both ways would be a crazy waste of time!

In Syabru Bensi there is an office for the Nepal-China road building project. The road on the Tibet side is already there from Kyirong almost to the border so no doubt it will eventually be a through route and perhaps the road conditions will then be improved.

I think a good idea to go to Langtang and make side trips and further exploration up the valley. Also be aware that there is a great trail that branches off at Lama Hotel and goes on upper North side of Langtang valley via Sherpagoan and Bhanjyangoan down to S Bensi. The views are outstanding across to Gosainkund and round to Ganesh Himal and the 2 villages mentioned are small and friendly and have great traditional-style trekking lodges.

Have a good trip!

[Sharon]

Up behind Sybaru Bensi is Chaurhattar, Gatlang, Gothen and the Chorten trail. Some fascinating Villages and much less touristy although I expect busier than when I went in 2004.

[Escher]

Hi Rich: no, I think I had the Rolwaling one off you but not the Tamang guide, that would be great. If you don't still have my email address PM me and I let you know.

Hi Paul and everyone: after a particularly scary ride on the roof of a mini bus driven by a 10 year old in Morocco, who spent the whole journey leaning out of the window looking up at us and laughing, whilst on a track the width of the minibus and a BIG drop below I think I fancy walking to Dunche. It's not really that far is it? At least that way you have some control over your fate. After all it is true to say that you are more likely to come a cropper in a bus accident in Nepal versus altitude/LYW attack/earthquake/dodgy dal bhat. I assume the road is fine to walk on and I've had my fair allocation of 'crazy foreigner' comments so I don't mind a few more. Not sure of the availability of jeeps as we might be going mid december but I'll bare in mind eveything you say.

Sharon: I assume there aren't any lodges up that way and it is camping?

[Sharon]

Rustic in 2004. I am sure there would be lodges now. I was out in the Ganesh Himal for 2 weeks. Never saw another foreigner in that time. Close to Sybaru Bensi I am sure you could manage. Further out not so much.
I would walk for sure. On my way out on that trip we walked from Trisuli out to the highway to Kathmandu. Safer and the same amount of time in a brutal bus. Course we did it that time as the maoists had blown up vehicles and no taxis etc would take us out.

[rich]

Well there is a very good community lodge in Gatlang.

[cyclingpaul]

I am not sure of LYW danger, but if you are seriously planning to walk in or out of Syabru bensi why don't you try the other side of the valley to the road? This would be West or true right bank.

On this side you can see a great trail going through lovely looking villages right down to Trisuli. Have a look on the Nepal Army map ( Gosain Kund sheet 34 ) or the Alpenvereinskarte Langtang West maps.

You would go from sSyabru Bensi to Slya, Gre, Nesin, Thulo Haku et c etc. I think it would be a great route with fabulous views back across to Gosainkund and Langtang and would maybe be 2 days to Trisuli. Got to be better than road trudge?

[cyclingpaul]

Escher, would your Moroccan driver beat this guy from the Langtang bus?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheffers/3122387793/in/set-72157611315859853/

[Escher]

Escher, would your Moroccan driver beat this guy from the Langtang bus?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheffers/3122387793/in/set-72157611315859853/

No way! He looks positively elderly in comparison! ;)

I wasn't exaggerating, his maximum age would have been 12 maybe 13 but could have been younger. He had two or three mates in the Ford transit minibus with him then us (four strapping lads plus luggage plus a load of gas canisters just to make it more dangerous) on the roof. It was really top heavy. The track was the same width as the van and there were dips every now and again where the front wheel nearest the massive drop would tip into making the whole vehicle lurch towards the drop throwing us all towards it. It was pretty horrifying. The kids driving (and helping!) were just looking at us out the windows and laughing. I had that 'blood drained from the face feeling' like when you've had far too much alcohol and repeated to myself over and over 'I don't want to die!'

We then passed an upside down minibus several 100m down the ravine, that didn't settle my nerves! It's the fact that you have no control over the outcome that really scares me. I've had some great experiences on top of buses in Nepal but I felt in control then.

I like the attitudes to driving on the sub continent though. In India the creeping at traffic lights a minute before they change (because they know they will change) so they block the opposing traffic before the lights go green. The ability to get 10 lanes of traffic where in Europe you'd get 2. The fact that headlights should only be switched on when it is picth black (you don't want to wear them out) and the whole horn system that just seems to work so well. Traffic flows and everyone goes for gaps and lets people through. So much better mannered than in Europe and feels safer too as no-one goes that fast. Although we did manage to have a minor prang in Kathmandu the last trip.

Reminds of something Sanjeev Bhaskar said (him from Goodness Gracious Me):-

"What do you think is coming if you see two headlights coming at you down the middle of an Indian highway?"

"A lorry or a bus?" (I think it was Jeremy Clarkson replying)

"Might be that. Or it might be two lads on motorbikes carrying a wardrobe!"

I also laugh at the 4 on a motorbike thing. Dad driving, mum on the back riding side-saddle in a sari with one kid in between and another behind. And the only one wearing a helmet? That'll be the dad! Gotta love the sub-continent.

[Spaceman347]

It could also be 2 buses, each with a busted headlight :eek:

General point is the same though; don't assume anything (and maybe as an underlying theme; Stay off the roads as much as possible)

[thesilvertops]

We did see 7 on a motorbike last year in Cambodia. It was the whole family, father, mother, 4 kids and a baby!

[julia]

It is true you don't have to be in Nepal to have scary driver moments!

I was going down a dual carriage way when a car went round the roundabout and then came down the carriageway in the wrong direction, that was scary, as it is a 70 mile an hour road.

I was also in Peru on one of those scary bus routes going along a mountain road where the road is not wide enough, sitting on the dropside is the most frightening thing a passenger can do.

And, in a family car going along a off road mountain track in the same situation but with snow on the track, the car wobbled and slid and the drop was precariously close and getting nearer, I have to say I blubbed and asked to be let out of the car, squeezing my self out of the boot on to solid ground (no kidding)!

I once saw a woman on a horse going down the Grand Canyon crying her eyes out because the path was narrow and the horse wobbled from side to side and every now and again slid on the gravel path! My heart went out to her!

[Landfall38]

I once saw a woman on a horse going down the Grand crying her eyes out because the path was narrow and the horse wobbled from side to side and every now and again slid on the gravel path! My heart went out to her!

Horse or mule? Bet that horse had a smile! How else do you think it enjoyed its days going up/down on that path (I've backpacked up that Grand Canyon trail -- their "attitude" seemed worse than djopyaks in the Khumbu)

[Escher]

Horse or mule? Bet that horse had a smile! How else do you think it enjoyed its days going up/down on that path (I've backpacked up that Grand Canyon trail -- their "attitude" seemed worse than djopyaks in the Khumbu)

Ha ha! Yes spot on. Reminds me of two American women, on the largish size and getting on a bit that rode past me on mules on the way from Kagbeni to Jomsom. They were wearing 'ethnic' clothing, which I guess they bought in Pokhara, that resembled fake afro wigs and rasta - red-green-yellow - hats. As they approached us I could hear them say to each other 'I'll bet they think we are Tibetan!'

Errm, nope! And I am sure the mules were laughing too but thought 'all in a day's work!'