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Airish
22nd January 2010, 08:44 PM
..possible to trek up to 6000 metres without going to any peaks? Thus not having to pay the peak permission and still reach the 6000m marker. Especially in the Annapurna region or nearby. Possible?
Thank you for the replys in advance :)

Escher
22nd January 2010, 09:49 PM
Not easily. You could try a 'bandit' ascent of a peak (i.e. don't buy a permit) and hope not to get caught. But you'll need to get yourself and the kit you need to base camp without much help and hope no-one else is there to ask you where your guide is. That is probably easier in the Annapurnas rather than the hotspots in the Khumbu (e.g. you are unlikely to get past Chukkung without a permit) but most of the trekking peaks in the Annapurnas are a bit away from the trail so you need food and kit to get to them and to climb. If you do get caught you run the risk of being banned from the country or worse.

There are a couple of peaks on Thorung La that are probably over 6000m so if you are a confident climber you could probably solo climb one of them (I wouldn't want to drag rope and gear up there just to say I'd been over 6000m) and get back down in a couple of hours and noone would stop you.

Other than that I don't think there are any places you can simply walk to without a permit and/or climbing/camping equipment. Most things higher than 5500m start to be permanently above the snowline and therefore probably glaciated. There are a few spots in the Khumbu that go over 5500 (nameless fangs near Gokyo, Chukkung Tse and more) and can be done in a day without extra gear but still don't reach 6000m. I think you'll need crampons, axe, food and shelter for a night or two to get over 6000m pretty much anywhere and only if you are a competent climber. The only place I can think of that is supposedly a walk to that height is advanced base camp on the North side of Everest but you require a permit to get there or Aconcagua but that is the wrong hemisphere! Even the passes that are over 6000m need mountaineering equipment and are normally quite serious.

So to cut a long story short - without camping and climbing eqt or a permit - I think the answer is no. With the right gear I would say the peaks on the Thorung La would be the easiest but you need to be able to climb.

Airish
25th January 2010, 05:15 PM
http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/150381/thorong-ri.html
I found this. Are there any other possible peaks nearby? And has the info on that website gone out of date, since i noticed couple of dates from 1991?

Do you know about the peaks and treks in far western Nepal? I read some info saying there plenty of free-of-permit peaks but cant really find any info about them.

Per
26th January 2010, 01:12 AM
..possible to trek up to 6000 metres without going to any peaks?

Yes, there are lots of peaks that are 6000 that can be done. Generally, peaks north of the Great Himalyan Range are more smooth, as there are less differences in altitude and less snow. There would be a lot of climbing going on if the goverment did not make it its business where and when people climb.

Your main problem is the rent seeking behaviour of the Nepalese state and its vassals, trekking agencies, etc. Local people will not be a problem in the Annapurna region, though watch out for officials sent to the area from Kathmandu.

There are two peaks on either side of Thorung La that can quite easily be climbed by a small competent party. However, there are a lot of people moving about and unless you are really minimalistic you are likely to be found out and made to pay some dues. Dhampus peak above Marpha is often climbed. It is best done from Dhampus pass. There is also a whole bunch of peaks around the Hidden Valley that appear to be easy scrambles. The same can be said about the peaks north of Tilicho.

http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Tilicho97/Annapurnas0071.jpghttp://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Tilicho93/Mesokantola0067.jpg

Scrambling north of Tilicho

Airish
28th January 2010, 12:18 AM
Ok. So youre saying that its a difficult/nearly impossible task to avoid getting caught doing a bandit peaktrek in Annapurna region during some what busy spring season. What kind of odds would you say there would be to find a some kind of peak expedition to tag along from Pokhara? Or do I have to go to Kathmandu?

Say I carry my own bag and minimize the costs how much would this kind of Guide+permit divided by a crew cost? There are lots of different info of the peak permits. Some say that its 350/500$ for the first 4 persons and some webpage said that even the first 9 person can go with the same permit. Of course there is the 250 refundable garbage payment but Im looking for an actual cost of trip.

Cheers for the answers!

Petrus
28th January 2010, 01:44 AM
Trekking peak permit for over 6000m peaks is $350 for 4 climbers and you have to have a guide. There are peaks that can be climbed without major expeditions: Imja Tse, Lobuche, Pisang Peak, and even Mera (minimum of 6 days away from trekking highways). They all require only a few days of camping away from the major trekking routes. If you can find a guide (and maybe porter) prepered to go alpine style, you do not need a large scale expedition, and it is legal.

If you want to avoid permits, go to an area where you can go legally without a special permit (Dhampus pass?) and where there are few trekkers. Then just climb high enough on some easy peak to reach 6000m.

Guide costs about $20/ day, porter $10/day. For this kind of endeavour you would possibly pay a bit more, also they need better than normal gear.

Per
28th January 2010, 01:51 PM
Ok. So youre saying that its a difficult/nearly impossible task to avoid getting caught doing a bandit peaktrek in Annapurna region during some what busy spring season.

No, that is not the case. The point is that you can not climb any of the peaks the government has chosen for you without considerable risk. That also goes for the peaks on either side of the Thorung La. As far as I understand both are prohibited territory as far as Kathmandu is concerned. All these peaks are close to people, to check posts etc. However, there are plenty of peaks both around Tilicho and around the Hidden Valley that can easily be scaled by a competent party. Dhampus peak is perhaps the easiest. Altitude difference, foot to summit, is probably less than if you do Snowdon. There is still some need for discretion, but local population want give a hoot as they donīt have a stake in the Kathmandu based trekking game.

http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Hiddenvalley/Dhampus0044.jpg

Hidden Valley peaks

kegarne
29th January 2010, 08:10 AM
There are plenty of free peaks in Western nepal. From memory Api is free and its' 7000m plus !

I think I have some info about it from old Mountain info mags I will check and try to find out more if you are interested. Check the NMA website ( Nepal Mountaineering Assoc) for info on trek peaks that are free.

I also think there is info on Summitpost if you do a search but I havent checked that site for a while.....

Regards
Tony

Petrus
31st January 2010, 01:21 PM
There are plenty of free peaks in Western nepal. From memory Api is free and its' 7000m plus !


I wonder. As I understand it all peaks need a permit (What is a peak? Basically even Gokyo Ri needed a permit) and those which are not mentioned on the fee lists are closed from climbing, not "free".

Per
31st January 2010, 10:32 PM
As I understand it all peaks need a permit (What is a peak? Basically even Gokyo Ri needed a permit) and those which are not mentioned on the fee lists are closed from climbing, not "free".

I am afraid Petrus is right. Climbing in Nepal is managed as a planned economy, in India it was known as Licence Raj. Strictly enforced permits would be needed even for minor peaks, such as Gokyo Ri and Kala Patar.

kegarne
1st February 2010, 01:39 AM
Well wonder no more, no peak fees are required for any mountains in West Nepal - I guarantee this is correct. Apparently it started in 2008 and was to go for the next 5 years.

I am sure you would still require a permit though but it would be free.

Per
1st February 2010, 12:21 PM
Well wonder no more, no peak fees are required for any mountains in West Nepal - I guarantee this is correct. Apparently it started in 2008 and was to go for the next 5 years.

I am sure you would still require a permit though but it would be free.

Ke garne is right http://www.theuiaa.org/news_73_Major-reductions-in-Nepal-peak-fees

However, it merely means that the peak tax is temporarily abolished. It does not lessen the effect of the licence raj on the local economy. Just imagine what Chamonix would be like, if one through history had had to pay a tax in Paris, and by law bring a liason officer, porters, and all one consumes along. It would definitely be fourth worldish, utterly poverty struck, though surely some fat cats in Paris would prosper. Just exchange Paris for Kathmandu and fat cats for TAAN and there is the Nepalese situation.

Petrus
4th February 2010, 01:39 PM
Well wonder no more, no peak fees are required for any mountains in West Nepal - I guarantee this is correct. Apparently it started in 2008 and was to go for the next 5 years.

I am sure you would still require a permit though but it would be free.

Yea, I think I have also read about this marketing thing. Permit is still needed even if free, as is guide (liason officer?) etc. Free permit would actually be only minor savings (100 to 1000 $ per climber for 6-7 km peaks depending on the group size and season) considering the total cost of an expedition to far West, but better than nothing.

http://www.theuiaa.org/news_73_Major-reductions-in-Nepal-peak-fees

kegarne
5th February 2010, 07:20 AM
Well I'm sure if you had a few like minded friends an expedition cld be mounted for minimal cost. All carry your own food, maybe pick up local guides, get local transport etc etc...