Carrying your own pack

[mtncanyon]

Namaste. Just thought id pass on my experience trekking without a guide or porter. While I was dead set on doing it, now that im back if there was one thing I did wrong this trip it was carrying my own pack. I made it from Phaplu to Dingboche however the days were very hard. I attracted a lot of attention carrying my own pack, the Nepalis wondered why I had no guide or porter and assumed that I had been to Nepal many times rather than this trip being my first. and worried what would happen if I got sick along the way. Other trekkers thought the same. In five weeks I saw just a handful of others carrying their own packs. While I knew I could do it I have to agree with some friends who have been to Nepal numerous times who said "Why would you? carry your own pack " For less than $10 dollars you can enjoy the scenery so much more, give locals employment which is very important, and have someone knowledgeable about local customs, the peaks, etc. In the lodges the guides other trekkers had waited on them and helped serve meals a very nice touch. I spent much of my time in teahouses sitting in the kitchen with guides and porters and really enjoyed the time with them. I never came down with a headache my entire time however I did get a serious case of the Khumbu cough which turned into an upper respiratory infection at Dingboche. I spent three nights there then went to the clinic in Pheriche where they put me on antibiotics and told me I was well acclimatized and that I could continue to ascend slowly. After spending the night in Dzugla I was so weak I had to descend back to Pheriche where they told me I was beginning to get Pulmonary Edema. I had to go on oxygen and descend to Pangboche. I didnt start to feel better till I got to Namche, Carrying the pack while ill didnt help. I was surprised that during peak season it was practically impossible to find locals who were avaialble as guides or porters There are no trekking agencies in Namche and the few locals who were available didnt appear as experienced or desirable as those which other trekkers had. I also head stories about guides or porters who werent hired through an agency being less than honest. I think carrying the pack may have weakend me a bit making me more susceptible to illness. In Namche I decided rather than spending time recovering and losing precious time trying to get back up to Lobuche or Gokyo, to leave the Khumbu and go to Pokhara. I recovered nicely in warm Pokahara and did a five day Ghandruk, Poon Hill, Ghorepani Trek with a porter hired through an agency ,who spoke some english. What a difference it made. For 600 rupees a day I had it so much easier and I was helping the locals which I really wanted to do. Everyone is different of course and I did like the workout I got carrying the pack but I would seriously consider having at least a porter hired through an agency especially If you want to do some high altitude treks. So its a given, next time I return to Nepal, which will be soon, Ill have a porter gude. Hope this helps. Avsfan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8482199@N07/3060823866/in/set-72157609271568849/

[Escher]

I've carried my own pack on 9 treks in Nepal, not once have I had a local (other than a porter looking for business) tell me they thought it was strange, nor have I ever had another trekker say the same.

Fortunately Nepal caters to all: people who over pack and lump 20kgs round the hills carrying too much crap; people who like being herded in small groups where they are herded from one place to the next and aren't really very self-sufficient in the mountains; people who like to employ good friends of theirs and enjoy their guides company and take it easy; people who are independent but still want the convenience of hiring staff; people who are perfectly capable of carrying their own gear but like to put something back and hire a porter and finally people who are independent and are quite capable of carrying their own stuff, pack light and look after themselves.

Often there is a - one-size fits all - approach from some trekkers. "Everyone should hire a porter," "you should never carry your own stuff," "you should only go with a guide" "you should never trek alone," "you should always/never use trekking poles" "you should never/always trek in trainers."

Quite frankly I find these dictats quite strange. One of the joys of the mountains is freedom to do what you want, to be away from the rules and regulations of daily life and to just do want you want to do when and how you want to do it. Long may it be possible for everyone to hike, walk, climb, travel and trek without someone telling you how you should do it based only on their own experience.

Perhaps you attracted attention form the locals because you looked so knackered carrying your own pack? Not everyone suffers as much nor attracts that attention. What would be best for you may not be best for everyone else.

[mtncanyon]

I agree, to each their own. It didnt work as well for me as it did for you. I thought Id share my experience though. Definitely dont feel that you have to have a porter in order to have a great time trekking. I had an incredible time despite the pack. You wont know till you try!! avsfan

[yakshaver]

I agree, to each their own. It didnt work as well for me as it did for you. I thought Id share my experience though. Definitely dont feel that you have to have a porter in order to have a great time trekking. I had an incredible time despite the pack. You wont know till you try!! avsfan

Indeed there are more opinions on this than you care to nominate, and occasionally this board has seen some heated discussion. I fully agree that to each their own...
I always employ a porter-guide, or if I go with a group, we get a guide and some porters.

I am indeed lazy, don't like to carry more than 5 kg if trekking above 4000m altitude, which seems to happen on every bloomin trek...
Secondly I like the companionship of the Nepalis on trek with me.

There is a porter who's been with me on 5 treks, a couple of them on three. Plus, Santa, the guide I usually employ has been on trek with me more than he probably cares to remember...

[mtncanyon]

Most importantly I found out during peak season it is very difficult to find locals available at least from Namche on up so if you do want one its better to get one before you arrive in the Khumbu. It wont be cheaper to arrange it once you leave Kathmandu.

[kiwigirl]

Most importantly I found out during peak season it is very difficult to find locals available at least from Namche on up so if you do want one its better to get one before you arrive in the Khumbu. It wont be cheaper to arrange it once you leave Kathmandu.

that would be right. we wanted one extra porter coming back to Lukla (I did too much shopping !) from Namche and we couldn't find one.the ones we spoke to just didn't want to do it. we didn't really need one and we carried our own gear back down but we did enjoy their company. They are such incredible people :)

[kiwigirl]

Perhaps you attracted attention form the locals because you looked so knackered carrying your own pack? Not everyone suffers as much nor attracts that attention. What would be best for you may not be best for everyone else. (QUOTE)

maybe he just attracted attention because he is such a nice friendly guy :cool:

[KMJ]

I got back from a trip there a short while ago and we carried our own packs and I must say I also found that we attracted a bit of attention from the locals, always friendly though, wondering why no guide or porter. Perhaps we too looked like the novices that we were. On the days when we went over the passes, we hired a porter for the morning to carry Dad's pack to the top of the pass. That made it much easier for him. It was no probalem to find a porter for half a day in Chukkung and Gokyo but it was a bit harder in Lobuche. Sometimes the trekking groups stop in places for a couple of days, especially Gokyo and sometimes Lobuche and while all the clients are going up Gokyo Ri their porters are sitting bored playing cards all day and were pretty willing to make some extra money for a day. That's what we found anyway.

[Suginami]

I am too old and heavy to carry my own pack even though my pack is half the size of the average trekker's. I carry bird books, bins and stuff like that but I have loads of pockets all over me. So yes, always get someone to do the carrying because they need the money. And anyway I much prefer to hike with Nepalese than with trekkers.

As far as packs go. Most trekkers carry too much junk anyway. Huge packs teetering over their heads. What's all that for? Kitchin sinks in there?

Layers, minimum health kit and a book. Thats it. And a bit of patchouli.

[Michael Sunkist]

Nameste, well I've been trekking Nepal since the 70's, long before the teahouse trekking got set up. I've never had a local ask me why I carried my own gear. I've found the exact opposite, the trail folk such as porters consider one who can't hump his load kind of a sissy. They are constantly trying to get trekkers to try their load at rest stops just to see what real loads are all about. Unbelievable the weight they carry and ususally barefoot or in flip-flops. But if you can't carry your load at least you help the economy. I prefer the freedom of now guide or porter. Happy trails

[kiwigirl]

Nameste, well I've been trekking Nepal since the 70's, long before the teahouse trekking got set up. I've never had a local ask me why I carried my own gear. I've found the exact opposite, the trail folk such as porters consider one who can't hump his load kind of a sissy. They are constantly trying to get trekkers to try their load at rest stops just to see what real loads are all about. Unbelievable the weight they carry and ususally barefoot or in flip-flops. But if you can't carry your load at least you help the economy. I prefer the freedom of now guide or porter. Happy trails

everyone seems to have such strong opinions on this one. I would never think of not carrying my pack in New Zealand or anywhere else as I love carrying my pack but Nepal is different. I don't handle the altitude well, I am a slow climber and I love helping the locals by buying a lot of stuff. Each one of us is different. I must say that when I do see trekkers carrying their own packs, I do admire them and the fact that they are so much fitter than I would ever be. And I really admire the locals with all their loads. Even in the city with the way they drive and how they help each other, if someone wants to pass, the one in front will use the horn if the way is clear to let them know it is ok to pass. They are so amazing. :)

[Lars]

Indeed there are more opinions on this than you care to
nominate, and occasionally this board has seen some heated discussion.
I fully agree that to each their own...
I have no problem with the 'to each their own' bit. And if I am lucky I will still be
trekking when I can longer carry my own load. Then I'll have porters too.

But I do find it pathetic when an average tourist has hired a bunch of poor guys
to fan his ego, and is pretending to be leader of an expedition into the unknown,
when he is on the same trek countless Asia-travelers has done long before he
had even heard of Nepal.

[Suginami]

my first teahouse treks meant staying in dormitories or just a large wooden structure with a fire in it and very dark. individual rooms were rare. I remember that some people preferred to sleep outside in their tents and just come in for meals now and then. But others carried their food, too. there were sadhus all over the place all the way up to Muktinath. Only charas between them and the cold.

I remember a really odd shaman in Kusma.

Birethanti was a really nice 2 day hike.

And we didn't start at Jiri it was somewhere else. EBC took a very long time and was awful. But in those days we stayed 3 months in Nepal, 9 months in India and several months in Sri Lanka. And back up to Nepal again.

No one had a porter then. And a bed was 2 rupees

100 US dollars was seriously big money.

[kiwigirl]

I have no problem with the 'to each their own' bit. And if I am lucky I will still be
trekking when I can longer carry my own load. Then I'll have porters too.

But I do find it pathetic when an average tourist has hired a bunch of poor guys
to fan his ego, and is pretending to be leader of an expedition into the unknown,
when he is on the same trek countless Asia-travelers has done long before he
had even heard of Nepal.

but how do you know he is just fanning his ego?
I would definetly hire a bunch of guys but it would be because I want to help their economy

[RRainey]

What I don't understand is why some people equate suffering with the ideal trek. I love working hard. I'll run or hike for 12 hrs if I feel like it, but what is wrong with a bed, heat,good food?

I see no reason why do it yourself is superior. Do you grow and hunt all you food at home?

Nepal I don't excect luxury, but I'll take all I can get.

If you guys really want to go for it sleep on a bed of nails outside in the winter naked.

Hiring locals has nothing to do with ego. I like to support the locals and learn from my guides.

[mtncanyon]

The locals respected the fact that I was carrying my own pack and that I knew at least a little Nepali. They all assumed I was a seasoned veteran which I wasnt.I also love carrying my own pack and recently lugged a full load up the Grand Canyon to train. I dont mean to infer that they look at you in a negative way if you carry your own pack. When I arrived at lodges I often heard no guide, no porter? How many times have you been to Nepal? And honestly, during my trek I met very few foreigners carrying their own pack, even big huge strong ones. If I felt funny it was because of me, not from anything negative they implied. As for other trekkers, they all had porters whereas I did not. Just the luck of the draw. Other lodges were probably full of independent trekkers carrying their own pack . And gosh, there were days when I was really tired, especially south of Lukla, but those days were also some of the most memorable of the entire trip. But I was up late having a great time with the guides porters, other trekkers and lodgeowners most nights. My pack weight includng trekking poles and all clothing, before subtracting for the clothes I was wearing was 12.8 kg. not including water. Now, who wants to arm wrestle? Whoever loses buys the winners plane ticket back to Nepal :)

[yakshaver]

This conversation about carrying your own pack, or hiring porters/guides, the Nepali economy, the virtues or demeaning factors if you employ someone to carry your backpack - all off this has been debated ad nauseam for a number of times over the years. It is becoming boring. Really tedious.

People have expressed fairly strong opinions over the last few years and I see them regurgitated in this thread. This is also becoming really boring. To me at least.

I am trying to be nice about it. I find it difficult.

Anyways... can we change the subject?

[yakshaver]

my first teahouse treks meant staying in dormitories or just a large wooden structure with a fire in it and very dark. individual rooms were rare. I remember that some people preferred to sleep outside in their tents and just come in for meals now and then. But others carried their food, too. there were sadhus all over the place all the way up to Muktinath. Only charas between them and the cold.

I remember a really odd shaman in Kusma.

Birethanti was a really nice 2 day hike.

And we didn't start at Jiri it was somewhere else. EBC took a very long time and was awful. But in those days we stayed 3 months in Nepal, 9 months in India and several months in Sri Lanka. And back up to Nepal again.

No one had a porter then. And a bed was 2 rupees

100 US dollars was seriously big money.

This goes back a long way. Before my time. Thanks for sharing.

[kiwigirl]

This conversation about carrying your own pack, or hiring porters/guides, the Nepali economy, the virtues or demeaning factors if you employ someone to carry your backpack - all off this has been debated ad nauseam for a number of times over the years. It is becoming boring. Really tedious.

People have expressed fairly strong opinions over the last few years and I see them regurgitated in this thread. This is also becoming really boring. To me at least.

I am trying to be nice about it. I find it difficult.

Anyways... can we change the subject?

Thats not fair. MtCanyon and myself are still fairly new members. we havent read the stuff you mentioned that has been coming over the last few years. I am finding this thread very interesting. :)

[yakshaver]

Thats not fair. MtCanyon and myself are still fairly new members. we havent read the stuff you mentioned that has been coming over the last few years. I am finding this thread very interesting. :)


Ok, I apologise for my tone. I guess I am old enough and ugly enough to have witnessed and participated in a few fairly dogmatic (and therefore useless) points made about this subject. So I am not necessarily above such discussions, just a bit tired of them.

But I will refrain, as you make a valid point. For some people it is perhaps important to discuss this. If you search the threads you will see a number of attempts at this theme.

Feel free, go ahead. I promise not to spit the dummy at this anymore, on this matter at least...

[julia]

my first teahouse treks meant staying in dormitories or just a large wooden structure with a fire in it and very dark. individual rooms were rare. I remember that some people preferred to sleep outside in their tents and just come in for meals now and then. But others carried their food, too. there were sadhus all over the place all the way up to Muktinath. Only charas between them and the cold.

I remember a really odd shaman in Kusma.

Birethanti was a really nice 2 day hike.

And we didn't start at Jiri it was somewhere else. EBC took a very long time and was awful. But in those days we stayed 3 months in Nepal, 9 months in India and several months in Sri Lanka. And back up to Nepal again.

No one had a porter then. And a bed was 2 rupees

100 US dollars was seriously big money.



I agree with you YS, very interesting to read about past trips, perhaps you can tell us more some time Suginami. Do you have any photos?

[kegarne]

Yeah I agree Julia - what was life like travelling like that Sugi ?

Slipping between India and Nepal for a year - sounds very exciting to me - I have always wanted to do that.

[Lars]

And we didn't start at Jiri it was somewhere else. EBC took a very long time and was awful.
It started in Lamosangu, and took 40 days back and forth.

[yakshaver]

It started in Lamosangu, and took 40 days back and forth.

How long ago? Describe please.

Maybe we should have a section for descripion of old treks, say in the 70'ies (if anyone goes back that far) and the 80'ies...

[Lars]

I would definetly hire a bunch of guys but it would be because
I want to help their economy
I don't doubt your sincerity in that, but sometimes there is a thin line between
"helping their economy" and taking advantage of people.

[julia]

How long ago? Describe please.

Maybe we should have a section for descripion of old treks, say in the 70'ies (if anyone goes back that far) and the 80'ies...


Yes, I think we should, that would be really good. Maybe be have a sticky just for old times trips, it is fascinating to read about it. It might take a while to get some in there, but that's ok isn't it.

Ju

[kegarne]

Yeah I love hearing about the old times in the 70's - they sound like the best - I wished I could have trekked then. I would love to read peoples accounts. My first trek was '97 and the difference between then and now is amazing.....

[RRainey]

I don't doubt your sincerity in that, but sometimes there is a thin line between
"helping their economy" and taking advantage of people.

Yes, I am sure it is possible to exploit the situation.

But if you treat your porters/guides with respect as fellow humans, tip them well, talk with them and take care of them?. Example-He has bad shoes, therefore i'll buy him shoes etc. In addition to a generous tip.

RR

[kiwigirl]

what really upsets me is seeing porters carrying more than one pack and people from the west striding along side them:mad:

[lazy climber]

I find this thread interesting as I have never trekked in Nepal, we are going in April 2009. We hike and climb in N American and of course no one carries your pack for you, although there times when I wish I had someone to do so, climbing gear is HEAVY. I have a daughter who is working in Banepa this year and has hiked in the Annapurna area and will be doing EBC this month and did not use or plan to use porters or guides. She met lots of hikers and locals and we will be using a guide she met while hiking.
I too, find the thought of PAYING someone to carry my stuff repulsive, ( it is my stuff and I SHOULD have to carry it) but this appears to be the culture and I am looking forward (with some reservation) to this experience.
There will be 8-9 of us and we could carry our own junk easily but we chose not to for a lot of reasons. We are doing Island Peak so I suppose that is the first reason, we hope we get to interact with the locals a bit more this way ( we are staying in lodges as opposed to camping) but that may not make a difference, it is relatively cheap to have porters and guides, it helps the economy some and even though we will be travelling light not having to carry much will make the trip easier. Since none of like the idea of other people hauling our junk I would guess the porters will have an easy load with us.

Everyone tells me that once I go the first time I will go again and maybe next time I will not use porters or guides but why not, it is cheap, you make new friends and you may be helping someone.

We have rock climbed a lot in Thailand and even though we do not need guide service we usually use a guide. It helps the local economy and you get to meet a lot of new people and over the years have sent climbing gear to different guides to help them with their busuness. It's great to be met at the airport or beach by a local, everybody else is milling around trying to figure out what to do and off you go. The last time we went the long tail boats were letting everybody off in knee to waist deep water and our friend showed up with one of the resorts "tractors" to pick us up., it was great.

You are right, maybe it is an ego thing.

[yakshaver]

Yes, I think we should, that would be really good. Maybe be have a sticky just for old times trips, it is fascinating to read about it. It might take a while to get some in there, but that's ok isn't it.

Ju


Indeed, this is what I had in mind.

Since Escher is the speciallist in doing "stickies" (hm, the mind, and everything else boggles...), I will kindly ask him if he can put something up.

Is that ok Escher?

[Lars]

>It started in Lamosangu, and took 40 days back and forth.

How long ago? Describe please.
That is from 1983. Personally I trekked in Langtang and the Annapurnas that
year and only got to Everest in 1989. By that time the road had already been
extended to Jiri.

So I have never trekked from Lamosangu myself but met others in -83 who did.

[marcy]

KiwiGirl - Well, even the porters carrying a trekkers bag end up with 2 bags -- the porter's own stuff isn't going to walk up the hill the on its own. Some porters pack really lightly and are ill-equipped for the cold. Some pack what would be lightly for a tourist, but still well enough to have what they need: sleeping bag, down jacket, fleece, a change of pants etc and thus end up with a pretty full looking backpack of their own that weighs a good 10-12 kils or more. They tie it together with the tourist backpack and wear it with a tump line.

In fact, by the time we got back to Lukla, my guide's own backpack weighed in at about 25 kilos on the airport: on the way down he bought for his wife shoes/jacket/about 5-6 kilos of the largest carrots you've ever seen...and who knows what else.... and then agreed to take stuff to kathmandu for a sherpa friend he met en route down who was also flying to KTM but didnt have her own luggage to put her stuff in.

And yes, porters from the groups do end carrying multiple packs, but other than 2 or 3 really overloaded ones I saw, most appeared to be carrying a reasonable 20-25Kg or so. And still their loads are alot lighter than the porters who work hauling supplies up the mtn ... rather than working directly for trekkers/trekking groups. One example I recall is porters carrying 7 cases of beer, and thats just what I could see sticking out of the baskets, dont know what was loading up the basket itself. When booking with a company, make sure you book with one that abides by the weight limits set by groups such as IPPG.

[kiwigirl]

yep the agency I used was strict about the packs and he gave me a set weight, I think it was 20kg? I cant remember. I was impressed with the fact they they look after their staff :)

[Per]

now that im back if there was one thing I did wrong this trip it was carrying my own pack.

— hmm. I think you got bad advice before you set off, that you carried too much. If you had been better read you would have known that there are friendly logdes all the way that have catered to foreign trekkers since the sixties, and much longer to local trekkers. So, to hike to EBC you don´t really need much more than a tooth brush and a warm jacket, throw in a sleeping bag for clean bedding.

Tea house trekking is actually a total misnomer. Tea house trekking was not invented in the seventies. Before the advent of roads there were trails connecting even the most distant villages and there was considerable traffic on them. Traders bringing stuff in and out, villagers hiking to Kathmandu to settle administrative issues, government bureaucrats going out to or back from their posts, etc, etc. There were bhattis along these major trails. Food and bedding was on offer. When trekking first started to expand in the late sixties the trekkers used the bhattis. Gradually, they have learned to cater to western tastes. In some places where a heavy influx of foreign trekkers have been expected they have built special purpose lodges, and met demands such as separate rooms, hot showers, fire place, and what not. Sometimes thay have made a lot of damage.

Two cases in particular. First time I came to Langtang in March 1972 there was only a Khamba war camp with an excellent canteen in Ghore Tabela. It was surrounded by dense dripping primeaval forest. When I returned ten years later http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Langtang/Langtang82.html the area was totally deforested.

Same goes for Ghore Pani. When I was there first in April 1974 there were only three lodges, none at the watershed. It was in the midst of primary forest. Today there is a village, both where the original hotels were and also straddling the watershed. Lots of forest has been destroyed, meeting the demands from trekkers for wood fires to hang around and hot water for showers.

Personally, I feel that having a guide for hiking to the EBC or around Annpurna or to Langtang, would totally disconnect me from local life.

[Suginami]

I always go really light and always have done. I just don't want the weight. Mostly people ask me where is your porter because I usually take a medium size pack that I use for weekend trips to Yamanashi.

The only weight goes in my pockets with bird guides, note books and recently a small powerful digital camera. A few books to read at night. I once took a down jacket but only used it on the bed. Just layers is enough. Go to bed early. Ski pants layers are fine for sleep with a big quilt.

I once bought some kind of blanket made out of goat hair which smelled but was quite warm.

Mind you binoculars can really give you a sore neck after a while.

Why do people have rucksacks higher than their heads?

Mind you some people are really strong so they can carry a lot.

I have trekked with bird guides twice. It was like taking a masterclass in birding. Really good. These days its day hikes up Pulchowki. Only good on weekdays now.

Lumbini..Now this is great birding and Koshi Tappu is just lovely..

[Per]

It started in Lamosangu, and took 40 days back and forth.

I started in Lamosangu in February 1972. Think it took me nine days to Namche. It was dal bhat, until I got to Solu, then, it was potato.

[kiwigirl]

QUOTE Personally, I feel that having a guide for hiking to the EBC or around Annpurna or to Langtang, would totally disconnect me from local life.
PER {QUOTE}



the main reason I plan to take 2 guides is so that we dont get lost!!:)

[Sharon]

Believe me you couldn't get lost if you tried. I differ with Per on this. I find that having a guide enhances the experience. The guides I use have become good friends.
That said I know that I treat the porters much better than most. If you simply believe the company when they say they take care of the porter you are being foolish. I learned the hard way (actually the staff suffered) on my 2nd trek. The staff was not taken care of even though PH said they met IPPG standards.

[Per]

the main reason I plan to take 2 guides is so that we dont get lost!!:)

Yes, in some areas off the main trails it can be very useful to have a guide and porters. Route finding can be exceedingly difficult if you don´t speak nepalli and in some areas there may be very little food so you need to bring your own. You might have to camp and cook the food you brought along.

However, if you hike to Everst Base Camp, around the Annapurna or to Langtang, the traditional tea house treks, there is no need for guides much less porters, as everything you can possibly need is available in the local markets.

Sharon has done some trekking into areas that do not have much of lodges and resturants, e.g., around Manaslu and from Rolwalling to Khumbu. Both areas have seen few or no independent trekkers, much less if anything is available locally, and the lodges have never had independent trekkers. In such conditions I can see that it makes sense to go with a guide and some porters. I hiked to Rolwalling in 1974 and beyond Charikot I did not spend a single night in a lodge. There simply was not any, so I stayed in the houses with friendly people that took me in, fed me for a charge, and took their new found foreign friend along to a great party, etc.

It should be noted that the backwardness of upper Buri Gandaki (Manaslu) and Rolwalling is a product of government policy. These areas have for long periods been denied having visitors that travel on their own, so there has been little development of local tourist business, instead the guys that you have to bring along and above all their agencies in Kathmandu make a good deal of money.

[marcy]

Whether to take a porter and/or guide is a matter of personal preference. In 1990, when I was young and thin I did Annapurna circuit, carried my own bag - no porter or guide. And was proud of it. And despite cautious acclimatization nearly died of Cerebral Oedema.

My last four treks I took both porter and guide. Why? Well, I am now an older short fat woman w/ not so good knees (ruined them in my youth with too much martial arts) who hikes very slow, and acclimatizes slower than normal with occasional acclimatization problems even acclimatizing ultra cautiously. (E.g. this year my oxygen sat dropped to 70% in Khumjung even after an ultracautious acclimatization, so I had to go down for a few days before going up again). . So, to facilitate my love for the mountains I travel alone rather than with group so I can hike at my speed and acclimatize at a very slow very ultra cautious schedule. And I have my pack portered - I carried it in my youth, have nothing to prove anyone, and realize that carrying it would up my risks of serious problems even further.

Why 2 guys when I need one? Well, originally I hired a guide I knew, but he's really not strong enough to porter for me. So we hired on his bro-in-law who's sweet as can be but spoke no english at the time and now only a very little english. Do I need them to find the trail? Mostly, no. But sure is nice to have Dendi run ahead and reserve a room for me when its getting really late and I know the village ahead will be particularly crowded (esp. if I want to stay in a lodge I have liked previously). And nice to know that if something happens to me, someone will know.. and someone who knows me can stay with me and/or go for help. And they are great at judging based on my own personal speed/condition, whether I should stay at the village we've arrived at, or whether I can push on ahead to the next one. And nice for them b/c they really enjoy each other's company.

I can't think of any way in which traveling with them has done anything but improve my connection with the people... everyone in the Khumbu seems to know them and wherever we have travelled, Khumbu, Langtang, Helambu, being with them has been an entre to delightful nights in the kitchen with the family while they translate between me and those who dont speak English... and also translate for me with people on the trail. I speak only very very basic nepali.

[minialan]

Have to say i really really agree with Escher. Each to his own, enjoy the freedom on the hills. Last time i was in Nepal i carried my own pack from Jiri to EBC and back. I was an idiot and took too much stuff including my tent !
I did suffer but enjoyed the independance all the same. I did suffer on occasion though. There were some porters who laughed at me, all sweaty and puffing. when i looked round they were carrying what i can only describe as wardrobes on their backs held on with string ! One had a huge full basket of stuff held on with string round his forehead. We laughed together and he offered to put my pack ontop his basket ! Instead i carried the basket for him for a while up some steep steps to give him a break. After just twenty minutes i was so knackered it was if i had been in a wrestling match. I have such respect for those guys they are amazing. After that experiance i never let any porters hear me moan about the weight of my pack again.
Sorry, just thought i would share that with u all, oh sweet memories.
Alan

[marcy]

Ah.. your story brings back fond memories of my 1st trek - Annapurna Circuit in the 1990s. One day, while trekking alone, a grandpa-aged-looking porter pulled up beside me -- LITERALLY carrying a tall heavy wardrobe chest on his back. We walked amiably together for about 2o minutes chatting -- me especially greatful for the company since him carrying such a heavy weight meant we walked the same slow speed. Then he looked at me and said, that he needed to get on his way... time for dahl baht... and he took off up the trail, leaving me eating dust, and was out of site in just a few minutes.

[yakshaver]

Ah.. your story brings back fond memories of my 1st trek - Annapurna Circuit in the 1990s. One day, while trekking alone, a grandpa-aged-looking porter pulled up beside me -- LITERALLY carrying a tall heavy wardrobe chest on his back. We walked amiably together for about 2o minutes chatting -- me especially greatful for the company since him carrying such a heavy weight meant we walked the same slow speed. Then he looked at me and said, that he needed to get on his way... time for dahl baht... and he took off up the trail, leaving me eating dust, and was out of site in just a few minutes.


:) :D

Nice...

[Per]

I have such respect for those guys they are amazing. After that experiance i never let any porters hear me moan about the weight of my pack again.

It really depends who is carrying. We trekked up to Langtang from Trisul. My wife was ill. So we got a new porter each day for the heaviest sack until we got up on altitude. The first day we had black smith. He complained every step. Second day we had a high caste fellow who also complained a lot and made us feel really guilty. Third day we had a Tamang carpenter, who did not complain at all, we could hardly keep up. Then, in Dunche we got thisTamang bloke.

http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Langtang/Film0250.jpg

He carried the ruck sack on a nanglo, a band over the head, barefoot up to Kyangin. We had to ask him to slow down again and again. First it was a bit scary, as we soon realised we were being shadowed by someone. Turned out that it was his brother. They had gone down from some high village to earn some cash as day labour and thought we were the best deal even though we just paid one of them. Really nice guys.

[kegarne]

This guy carried these beams all the way from Jomsom and was headed to Muktinath....it was astonishing....and he still managed a smile for me.

[rich]

Same guy? same place(Khingar Feb 2004) he wanted money for the photo this time

[Lars]

They had gone down from some high village to earn some cash as
day labour and thought we were the best deal even though we just paid one of
them. Really nice guys.
Sometimes when I travel and come to countryside villages I think that the
people there probably don't know how good their lives are. They live small scale,
grow their own food and make their own utensils. They no doubt work hard but
they are quite unaffected by many of the problems that we have. Their world is
small but they understand it entirely and are totally adapted to it.

Then again when I see this guy I cant help wondering why he is not attracted
to the city lights with all its gadgets and wonders.

[Suginami]

He runs the risk of being attacked by people with axes who want to steal that valuable wood.

Also I would have to shout."Oi. Get out of the way, you."

[Per]

Then again when I see this guy I cant help wondering why he is not attracted to the city lights with all its gadgets and wonders.

A good reason at that time would have been that there were no girls to befriend in the stuck up cities of the Kathmandu valley. Unlike high caste people Tamang youth have a lot of fun. I remeber hiking up the valley to Syabrubensi in the early seventies. Everywhere we heard young people singing. The guys would sing in one field and then we would hear girls cheakily replying from some field near by up or down the slope. When we passed a gully with a tributary there was a young bloke sitting on a rock playing some string instrument, no doubt for the local lasses. In Syabru the youngsters, men and women together, had hilarious fun.

[Lars]

In Syabru the youngsters, men and women together, had hilarious fun.
To me that is probably the most convincing evidence of a good life when young
men and women can sing and have openly fun together.

I detest places where sour bellied priests and prophets clamp down on every
sign that the opposite sexes enjoy each others company.

[Suginami]

Too true. I remember all the erotic parts of the temples scattered all over Kathmandu. Its very hard to find any now but they were very common. I also heard that Nepali men used to beat their wives a lot. So Nepal is not such a perfect idyll

[Per]

Lars: yes, in this respect the peoples of the hills and the mountains are fortunate compared to the stuck up people in the Kathmandu valley.

Too true. I remember all the erotic parts of the temples scattered all over Kathmandu. Its very hard to find any now but they were very common. I also heard that Nepali men used to beat their wives a lot. So Nepal is not such a perfect idyll

Kathmandu has been through a century and a half of prudity. During the Rana period, the Nepalese fetched their models for social behaviour from high caste India. This tendency was not turned around in 1951. Instead it was increased with the advent of roads, radio, tv, etc. It will be reversed, I think, when the Indian women rebel.

How badly the women are treated is in some respect a function of how hard or easy it is to divorce. There is a great deal of variation. Some tribes don´t have any problems with divorce. Others, e.g., high caste hindus, regard it as a sin and treat divorced women very badly.

As for the erotic art I think it is reinterpeted by every generation. They used to tell me that its purpose was to frighten of lightning, it would be so horrified that it would not strike temples embellished with it.