Where to start?

[Humid Northerlies]

Once upon a time, I had some reasonable savings. I decided to go travelling for a bit (I am from the UK), but accidentally spent the entire year in New Zealand travelling and working on farms. I really liked the country and was fortunate enough to gain permanent residency. Unfortunately, the medical fees (extortion) and immigration fees for this basically polished off what money I had left.
Now I live here permanently, I have fallen into the trap where it doesn't feel foreign anymore, and I just tell myself that all these fantastic tramps I can do anytime in the future. Meaning, my wandering feet have come alive again and I have my eyes on Nepal.

I would like to go there in October/November 2009. I have perused a fair few of the threads from the FAQs but I still feel like I'm in at the deep end. I really don't know where to start in planning this because it seems pretty different to tramping in NZ.

I am going to California in August 2009, so this whole plan places a major strain on my saving capabilities.
But what sort of (rough) budget should I be aiming for?

I would like to go for three weeks.

I suppose the main questions I need to ask are: where should I go? Do I need to go with a trekking company (I would really prefer not to, if possible)? What sort of expenses do I encounter once in Nepal?

It would be good if I could go somewhere that isn't too touristy, but I'm not fundamentally opposed to the popular treks.
I'm a bit worried about altitude sickness, but I suppose there's no way of finding out beforehand whether I am susceptible or not (NZ's highest peak is only 3800m and I won't be up there anytime soon...).

I imagine I will need a new sleeping bag (current one rated only to +2C). I have plenty of wool clothing...this being the home of Icebreaker (even though it's made in China!) and solid worn-in boots. Also have reasonable wet-weather gear which I imagine is more of a problem in NZ than Nepal in autumn.
I do tramp a fair bit over here, almost always alone. A mixture of bushbashing and sub-alpine/alpine trudging.
A few problems, if I'm honest with myself: In the lead up to October 2009 my fitness won't be that great. It's hard to get up high in winter. Especially this year where there were avalanches in the local mountains for the first time in 80 years. I don't have an ice axe or crampons. Do you need these for trekking in Nepal?
Also, a more fundamental problem. I have a terrible habit of walking at a pace that will almost certainly be too fast for high-altitudes. Regardless, I always get overtaken by some retired New Zealander! Is it easy to keep to a slow pace when walking in Nepal?

What sort of daily ascents do you encounter?
Is it a good idea to take a tent?


Sorry about my facile questions, but really I don't know where to start on this.

If anyone can give some advice it would be most appreciated. :)

[rich]

Guides, porters and trekking companies are all possibilities but not necessary for the most part, expecially if you are on a budget and on main routes. Otherwise they are an optional extra.

Budget perhaps US$15-20/day on most trekking routes, excluding flights, trinkets, permits etc. On off the beaten path routes or in the off season(winter, monsoon) expect to get away on less say $10 or less per day.

The difference between trekking in Nepal and tramping in NZ is that you don't need to carry your food, so this doesn't limit the length of the trek. There is generally a lodge system offering food and accomodation. Walking in Nepal makes you realise that the common NZ mentality of walking all day until sundown or you are exhausted is kind of stupid. A sensible walking pace is helpful in enjoying a multi-day/week trek. The terrain generally sorts you out anyway.

Leave the tent at home. Crampons, ice axe etc are largely unecessary.

Altitude is nothing to be afraid of as long as you have a keen respect for it, are honest with yourself and can recognise symptoms in yourself.

Perhaps get a hold of a guide book from the bookshop or library to give you an ideas of the route possibilities.

A reasonable down jacket, merinos and a polar fleece are sensible. A bag down to -10 or so is also usually comfortable. You can rent the bag and jacket if you like in KTM.

The are three main trekking areas with many possible variations (Solu-Khumbu, Annapurna and Langtang-Helambu) although plenty of other scope elsewhere.

Hopefully thats what you wanted to hear.
Dont hold back

rich (wellington, nz)

[Spaceman347]

Guide / porters
Available, but not necessary. Wisdom says don't trek alone, but that applies to everywhere not just Nepal. I'm not particularly wise so I don't tend to heed that advice (although YOU probably should - there ya go it's not my fault if anything happens to you). It'll be pretty hard to be 'alone' on any of the popular trails though so....

Costs (USD$1 = approx 70rs)
Hotels in KTM vary like all places, lots of comfortable hotels for $10.
food is cheap, I have a receipt here from Northfield cafe (popular breakfast place), I believe it's from the day I shared breakfast with Oli.
fresh OJ 80rs
Bacon & eggs 180rs
latte 80rs
Bottled water (1L) 15-20rs
Once on trek $15-$25/day, cokes, beers etc will push this up. This will cover all food & accommodation.

Altitude sickness
Take it easy, don't gain more than 300m / day in altitude and take the odd rest day. There is a lot of information out there written by people much more qualified than me, check any of the popular guide books (lonely Planet / trail Blazer etc)

Clothing
Any shoes are fine. If you trek (tramp) in boots at home then take them, if you tend to use shoes then that's fine. The locals wear cheap flip flops. I trekked from Namche to Pangboche (2 days) in Keen sandals cause they were comfy and the weather was great.

Other clothes; nothing special required, a good windproof (not necessarily waterproof) jacket, a decent fleece and a down jacket (you can rent for $1/day or so). I have a pair of trousers made from schoeller dynamic which I find great for trekking. There are quite a few clothing lists in the FAQs so do check those out.

Sleeping Bag
Oct/Nov is warm at lower altitudes, at the higher altitudes most people go for a bag somewhere between -5c and -20c. It depends on what you're used to and how warm you sleep. Something around -10 would be a good safe bet is you are in doubt (for that time of year), again you can rent in KTM. A +2c sleeping bag won't be warm enough.

crampons / axe
not necessary (on the main trails)

tent
not necessary (on the main trails)

misc
You'll find your own pace in the mountains don't worry about it. If you reach your next stop early and have energy left walk up the nearest hill for some amazing views. The trail and altitude will sort out your schedule for you though. You probably won't get overtaken up a hill by any retired New Zealanders but you will get passed by a bunch of little old Nepali ladies, just ask Escher. ;)

Daily ascents vary on the day, some days are not too much, some days are are big days. There are more average days than big days though. The big days can be 600m altitude gains or so.

Definitely go, you won't regret it. It may sound a bit sappy but I can honestly say it changed my life.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/88877708_681cd9bd1c.jpg

[yakshaver]

Most of the questions have been coverd admirably by Spaceman and rich.

I guess I will try to address what to do in three weeks. If money is in short supply, then perhaps a trek from Jiri to Gokyo/EBC and return might be on offer. Though most people who travel from Jiri, do reurn from Lukla to KTM by plane, meaning 100 USD one way flight.

Else you could choose to do a combination of AC and ABC, maybe about 18-20 days these days. And spend the rest of the time in the Kathmandu Valley (worth three days, very interesting - maybe before going anywhere on trek) and maybe chill in Pokhara for a couple or days after the trek.

A few days in Chitwan is also a good apres-trek relaxation.

Going anywhere else appart from the popular trekking areas (Khumbu, Langtang or Annapurna) will in general greatly increase the costs mainly due to logistical issues, but also due to high permit costs associated with some of the more remote areas.
Plus, the popular treks are nice, even in "high season". Amazing places in fact, and therefore popular for a good reason, not just like a fad. All of them offer off the beaten track one or two days trips, which are fascinating, but for most of those you definitely would need a guide, or a good porter-guide.

[Humid Northerlies]

Thanks for all the detailed responses everyone. I was quite surprised to find how low the daily budget can be.
I'll see how money goes with respect to renting or buying a down jacket. I would likely have little use for it over here, as I hear they become useless when wet...which is almost a given in NZ.
Sleeping bag I suspect I will buy. I'm long overdue an upgrade.

What is the accommodation like over there? Saw mentions of lodges and hotels- I am used to sleeping in backpacker dorms and tramping huts over here, are they fairly similar? Also, what is a teahouse?

The trip to me now seems imminently do-able :) But cannot be 100% sure until Christmas is out of the way when I can start actually saving. It appears that my greatest expense by a long way will be the flights.

Oh, and here's another dumb question :D
Over here I tramp in shorts, whatever the season. Is this OK in Nepal or not? How about gaiters?

Thanks again :)
(Yes already I am getting excited)

[Suginami]

Honestly if you have common sense all will seem obvious very soon. I think thats why trekkers go back again and again. But do heed the advice from these guys as they are right on the money about what to take and what not to take.

Light. Layers. A few good meds. Binoculars if you can squeeze them in or you will be borrowing mine.

How about a few guides to Himalayan plants, birds, mountains? All available at Pilgrim Books in Thamel. A star map...wow!!

[yakshaver]

What is the accommodation like over there? Saw mentions of lodges and hotels- I am used to sleeping in backpacker dorms and tramping huts over here, are they fairly similar? Also, what is a teahouse?

The trip to me now seems imminently do-able :) But cannot be 100% sure until Christmas is out of the way when I can start actually saving. It appears that my greatest expense by a long way will be the flights.

Oh, and here's another dumb question :D
Over here I tramp in shorts, whatever the season. Is this OK in Nepal or not? How about gaiters?

Thanks again :)
(Yes already I am getting excited)

Terms like lodges and tea houses are used interchangeably. Unlike tramping huts in NZ where you mostly look after yourself, the lodges in Nepal have the owners/faminly look after you in terms of cooking food, selling you biscuts, chocolate, coke/fanta/sprite, batteries, etc. And of course serve you tea or coffe (or vodka, rum, or seabuckthorn juice in season, or maybe just boiled water for safe drinking).

Lodges "quality" varies, but it is often surprisingly ok for the remoteness and the altitude. In places like Namche, Manang or Jomsom or Lukla you may even have some level of luxury if you are prepared to pay relatively big money (like 20 USD per night per room). But most of them are more of the same, with relatively hard mattresses and pillows. I stuff my down jacket with spare clothing for a pillow, and have a much more comfortable sleep on trek.

Regarding tramping in shorts, you can only tramp in shorts in Nepal if you shave or wax your legs AND if you have nice legs...
Kidding aside, you can probably walk in shorts during the day until about 3500m altitude, especially in October or April. Or if you go during the monsoon period, though exposed skin and leeches might be a bit of a problem there.
Also if you are a female (and not excessively visually challenging to others), you might want to consider long pants or a long skirt whatever the season.

However even if you wear shorts most of the time, and the weather permits it, you would want to have with you a long pair of nice comfy trekking pants, for when it gets colder at higher altitudes. Or if you trek during the from Mid November to February time frame. It gets bloody cold up there, minus 10 or even minus 20 degrees Celsius at over 4000m. Even a pair of polypropylene or wool underwear under your long pants does not go amiss at times, during that season.

[Oli]

The lodges are what makes Nepal so easy for trekkers - they provide accommodation and food. You get your own room (twin beds) at modest cost on the assumption that you eat from their menu. They offer a standard choice of western style cooking, mostly based on rice or noodles with potato, veg, cheese & egg. Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27279949@N00/378742337/sizes/o/) is a sample menu, prices will vary, allow for inflation and things cost more the higher you go.

Yes, you flights to/from Nepal will be the single most expensive thing. The longer you stay the cheaper it gets.

No need for gaitors (usually). You can get away with wearing shorts, in the tourist areas the locals are quite used to foreigners and their strange customs so are quite tolerant. However be aware that shorts are a sign of low caste, they are liable to (subconsciously) show more respect if you wear long trousers. Ladies please remember that wearing revealing or figure hugging clothing is more of a cultural faux pas for females and could well cause some offense.

accidentally spent the entire year in New Zealand
haha! Nice :D

[Spaceman347]

At higher altitudes the lodges resemble NZ huts to a certain degree but are generally larger with "private" rooms (and not painted red ;) ). There is a large common room, generally with a potbelly stove in the centre (burning wood at lower altitudes and yak dung at higher altitudes), a kitchen off to one side (not for guest use) and a bunch of rooms off to the other side. The rooms tend to use thin plywood as walls so you can pretty clearly hear the people next door talking / snoring etc.

Certainly the beds are the same ie wooden platform with a foam mattress on it, pillows are supplied (some people like to bring along a clean pillowcase, not a bad idea), generally a blanket will also be there. Most blankets etc "seem" pretty clean but I doubt they get washed very often.

At lower altitudes or in larger towns the lodges are more like a budget western B&B / hotel. In KTM you can stay down by Freak St for a couple of bucks or the Radison with a pool on the roof for a couple of hundred.

I often question myself why I don't have a photo or 2 of the insides of a lodge as it's a common question.

Renting a down jkt is a good idea, they are lovely and toasty warm on those cold nights.

[Escher]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/33852181_3fa040d079_b.jpg

Fairly typical of dining room area inside the mid-size lodges.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/33853801_df604318ec_o.jpg

Mid size lodges from the outside

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2060715744_ed5f0b02d1.jpg

Not always heated though

[Spaceman347]

That first photo (dining room) is The Moonlight Lodge in Namche?

[Escher]

Errmmm, not sure. It was the place we stayed in in Namche the first time I went to Nepal (my memory is a little hazy - well ok more like Swiss cheese) and I cannot remember what it is called.

If you are facing Namche from the bottom it is up the side of the hill on the right at about the same elevation as the path that heads around above the museum and army base but further back. Nearish to where that big stone hotel is now. They also had a 14" telly (on which we watched the IMAX Everest movie - not quite as impressive 14" high - just ask Spinal Tap) and a sweet little kitten who I attached myself to for several days as I missed my cats. Although these last details will not help you tell which lodge it was. The sleeping block was also detached from the lodge, although there were bedrooms upstairs.

[Humid Northerlies]

Well I need to start making decisions!

It seems that my funds and annual leave will allow it, so I shall go.

I would like to do part of the AC, but don't really know how to plan it all out without doing the whole thing.

I will probably have about ~19 days (give or take...) of actual trekking, and will be doing it roughly during the first 3 weeks of October.

What would be a good way to spend, say, 19 days on the AC without absolutely pelting along and not enjoying it, and also to see some of the most marvellous scenery?

It seems the cheapest way to fly is with Thai Air via BKK from Auckland.
I had a look at Singapore Air but would have to link with Silk Air and it seems to make it atrociously expensive...

I was hoping to avoid BKK due to worry about what happened at the airport there last year.

I also am going to buy a new sleeping bag....

(I still plan to rent the down jacket in KTM)

http://www.kathmandu.co.nz/Sleeping_Bags_&_Bedding/Sleeping_Bags/51122/Moonraker_Epic_v4_Sleeping_Bag.html
http://www.kathmandu.co.nz/Sleeping_Bags_&_Bedding/Sleeping_Bags/51110/Navigator_v4_Sleeping_Bag.html

Not sure which one is really necessary. Somewhat ignore the prices, as there is a sale starting soon where there is 60% off them.
One is rated to -5C "comfort" and -12C "limit"; the other -1C "comfort" and -7C "limit". But, given everyone rates bags differently, surely the down is the only way to really know?

[Spaceman347]

I also am going to buy a new sleeping bag....

(I still plan to rent the down jacket in KTM)

http://www.kathmandu.co.nz/Sleeping_Bags_&_Bedding/Sleeping_Bags/51122/Moonraker_Epic_v4_Sleeping_Bag.html
http://www.kathmandu.co.nz/Sleeping_Bags_&_Bedding/Sleeping_Bags/51110/Navigator_v4_Sleeping_Bag.html

Not sure which one is really necessary. Somewhat ignore the prices, as there is a sale starting soon where there is 60% off them.
One is rated to -5C "comfort" and -12C "limit"; the other -1C "comfort" and -7C "limit". But, given everyone rates bags differently, surely the down is the only way to really know?

I have a bit of an obsession with sleeping bags and you simply couldn't go past one of these (http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=101&products_id=294) at the moment with the sale that's on.

The PHD bags are some of the best sleeping bags made, the Kathmandu ones that you linked to are just generic high street products and there won't be much in the price by the time you take both sales and VAT into the equation.

Given you're an international order you won't pay VAT so that's 20%(?) off the listed price. They are very reasonable on shipping, I had a jacket shipped to Aust and it was only an extrra 10 pound for shipping (or something like that). I even had a PHD sleeping bag couriered to KTM and delivered to my hotel by hand for free but that's another story. (*tips hat to Oli)

If you're not familiar with PHD sleeping bags, it's worth noting that the minim bags don't have a zip (to save weight). Most people add an optional side zip.

[JamieW]

I would like to do part of the AC, but don't really know how to plan it all out without doing the whole thing.

I will probably have about ~19 days (give or take...) of actual trekking, and will be doing it roughly during the first 3 weeks of October.

What would be a good way to spend, say, 19 days on the AC without absolutely pelting along and not enjoying it, and also to see some of the most marvellous scenery?

It seems the cheapest way to fly is with Thai Air via BKK from Auckland.
I had a look at Singapore Air but would have to link with Silk Air and it seems to make it atrociously expensive...

I was hoping to avoid BKK due to worry about what happened at the airport there last year.

?

Hi Humid (interesting name??? -Must be from up Auckland way!!!)

I had a most enjoyable 4 weeks in Nepal last October, it was my first visit and although I didnt see some of the touristy spots, I did get a taste of what trekking in Nepal with fitting a 12 day solo trek outto Pokhara from Jomson (via Muktinath) followed by a guided 13 day return trek up to Everest Base camp.

I would recommend spending some the lower Mustang area as I was amazed at the variety of land forms, parts of which resemble the tawny glacial valleys of the McKenzie country, although somewhat windier, and the lower forested areas reminding me of some iconic West Coast hinterland.

The weather was dry and generally warmish, although the wind tended to build up from early afternoon on, consequently I did most of my trekking in the early morning. On my first trip I managed to stay comfy and warm with using my trusty Fairydown "Liteweight" in lodges of varying degrees of warmth, however I was grateful for the standard trekking company winter weight bag plus my thermals for the latter higher parta of the EBC trek. MOst lodges could supply extra bedding if required.

Yes I could have "pelted" along a bit quicker and ended up spending more time in KTM, but I found that if I got up and going early and made a steady pace (easy to do compared with the back-country tracks of NZ) that I could make it to my destined village for the night, secure a bed, have a "shower " and have the obligatory ginger tea before early afternoon, thus giving me plenty of time to explore and enjoy the villages and culture.

I would recommend flying into KTM with Thai if at all possible as they were much easier to deal with, -I was contemplating having to alter my flight out of KTM, the office in Thamel didnt think there would be a problem (or charge!). A number of Aussies on my EBC trek were intent on returning back to Oz 2 days earlier than scheduled on Singapore, they paid dearly for such a priviledge


Best of luck with the decision making. Trust me, the next six months will fly!!!

Cheers

Jamie

[Humid Northerlies]

I have a bit of an obsession with sleeping bags and you simply couldn't go past one of these (http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=101&products_id=294) at the moment with the sale that's on.

The PHD bags are some of the best sleeping bags made, the Kathmandu ones that you linked to are just generic high street products and there won't be much in the price by the time you take both sales and VAT into the equation.

Given you're an international order you won't pay VAT so that's 20%(?) off the listed price. They are very reasonable on shipping, I had a jacket shipped to Aust and it was only an extrra 10 pound for shipping (or something like that). I even had a PHD sleeping bag couriered to KTM and delivered to my hotel by hand for free but that's another story. (*tips hat to Oli)

If you're not familiar with PHD sleeping bags, it's worth noting that the minim bags don't have a zip (to save weight). Most people add an optional side zip.

Thanks Spaceman, but it is difficult for me to buy a sleeping bag without ever having seen it in person. How much does it cost to get a side zip?

[Humid Northerlies]

Hi Humid (interesting name??? -Must be from up Auckland way!!!)

I had a most enjoyable 4 weeks in Nepal last October, it was my first visit and although I didnt see some of the touristy spots, I did get a taste of what trekking in Nepal with fitting a 12 day solo trek outto Pokhara from Jomson (via Muktinath) followed by a guided 13 day return trek up to Everest Base camp.

I would recommend spending some the lower Mustang area as I was amazed at the variety of land forms, parts of which resemble the tawny glacial valleys of the McKenzie country, although somewhat windier, and the lower forested areas reminding me of some iconic West Coast hinterland.

The weather was dry and generally warmish, although the wind tended to build up from early afternoon on, consequently I did most of my trekking in the early morning. On my first trip I managed to stay comfy and warm with using my trusty Fairydown "Liteweight" in lodges of varying degrees of warmth, however I was grateful for the standard trekking company winter weight bag plus my thermals for the latter higher parta of the EBC trek. MOst lodges could supply extra bedding if required.

Yes I could have "pelted" along a bit quicker and ended up spending more time in KTM, but I found that if I got up and going early and made a steady pace (easy to do compared with the back-country tracks of NZ) that I could make it to my destined village for the night, secure a bed, have a "shower " and have the obligatory ginger tea before early afternoon, thus giving me plenty of time to explore and enjoy the villages and culture.

I would recommend flying into KTM with Thai if at all possible as they were much easier to deal with, -I was contemplating having to alter my flight out of KTM, the office in Thamel didnt think there would be a problem (or charge!). A number of Aussies on my EBC trek were intent on returning back to Oz 2 days earlier than scheduled on Singapore, they paid dearly for such a priviledge


Best of luck with the decision making. Trust me, the next six months will fly!!!

Cheers

Jamie



Thanks Jamie,
I have finally booked my flights, and yes I went with Thai Air. I arrive in the middle of the day in KTM on Wednesday 30th September, and leave in the middle of the day on Wednesday 21st October. So at a maximum I have 19 days of trekking, but that's probably not too realistic given having to spend at least some time sorting stuff out in KTM and wandering around.
You mention the Mustang area, but as interesting as it is, don't you need a very expensive permit for there and must be part of a group? I've heard about people illegally going in there, but I don't fancy chancing it!

Cheers