Lukla plane crash

[KMJ]

Passenger plane crashes near EverestFrom correspondents in Kathmandu, Nepal
October 08, 2008 02:54pm
Article from: Agence France-PresseFont size: + -

A SMALL passenger plane crashed on landing this morning in Nepal's Everest region, killing 18 people, Nepalese officials said.

"A Yeti Airlines plane has crashed at Lukla airport while it was landing,'' said airport official Mohan Adhikari.

Of the 19 passengers on the plane, 14 were foreigners and five were Nepalese and only one Nepalese survived, said Adhikari.

The Tenzing-Hillary airport in Lukla is the gateway to Nepal's Everest region, and is used by thousands of trekkers and mountaineers.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24465329-23109,00.html

[Escher]

That's terrible news. :(

[Escher]

BBC are saying that the foreigners killed were 12 Germans and 2 Swiss.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7658258.stm

[KMJ]

The Sydney Morning Herald sais it was 12 Germans and two Australians and 4 nepalese

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/australians-killed-in-nepal-plane-crash/2008/10/08/1223145434815.html

[hatless]

Apparently 2 Australians as well.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/aussies-killed-in-nepal-plane-crash/2008/10/08/1223145434815.html

Edit: Sorry about the echo KMJ.

[thesilvertops]

Awful news. Our thoughts and sympathy go out to the families and friends of all those involved.

[Huw]

I woke up this morning worrying about the few bob I have in the Icesave Bank which has gone tits-up here in the UK. This puts things back in perspective.
Very sad news indeed and deepest sympathy to all involved. Any further information as to how it happened? Bad weather, engine trouble?
Huw
--
http://nepaljournals.googlepages.com/home

[Huw]

>>Any further information as to how it happened? Bad weather, engine trouble?

I see the SMH report posted by hatless and KMJ gives fuller circumstances of the tragedy than BBC.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/aussies-killed-in-nepal-plane-crash/2008/10/08/1223145434815.html
Huw

[Trixie]

oh dear... what a tragedy. My condolences. I'm heading there next month :(

[Escher]

oh dear... what a tragedy. My condolences. I'm heading there next month :(

Bear in mind there are dozens of flights every day into Lukla during the trekking season and the pilots are very experienced at flying into there. Awful incidents such as this one are very, very rare.

[webmaster]

Here's an interesting link

http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Country=9N

[Escher]

Webmaster, the link doesn't work. It links straight back to Trekinfo.

Thanks - I just fixed it.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Country=9N

[Oli]

Tragic news :(

That ASN database (link (http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Country=9N)) seems to omit helicopter crashes, eg this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5377318.stm) & this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7276341.stm). And the one in 1975 when Ed Hillary's wife and daughter were killed en route to Lukla

One of my friends "crash landed" at Lukla in 2004, the landing carriage collapsed and the plane skidded to a halt, smoking engines... everybody bailed out quick but thankfully nobody was injured

[Spaceman347]

Terrible news indeed. RIP

There is some video of the wreck on the net already which shows significant fog and seems to show the plane right down at the end of the runway, it would appear as if it came in short???

[Lars]

It seems to have been reduced visibility. Just the minimum for landing at Lukla.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27078421/

[trekky48]

Bear in mind there are dozens of flights every day into Lukla during the trekking season and the pilots are very experienced at flying into there. Awful incidents such as this one are very, very rare.Terrible news ,condolences go out to the families ,yes Escher it might be a rare occurence that this thing happened & it might only happen once but it is enough to cause grief & heartbreak for 18 families that have lost loved ones, i start a trek to EBC next month & i wont be flying now i dont care how long it takes to get to Lukla::(

[Oli]

i start a trek to EBC next month & i wont be flying now i dont care how long it takes to get to Lukla::(

Trekking from the road at Jiri and back the same way will add maybe 10 days to your trek. It's quite a long drive from Kathmandu and the roads are significantly more dangerous than flying. There are countless accidents, fatalities happen all the time... link (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/849369.cms) link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6094522.stm) link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WDP/is_2002_Feb_25/ai_84260086) link (http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1191669)

Don't let this put you off. I'll be in the Khumbu this December, bus in and plane out, I'm looking forward to both journeys :)

[yakshaver]

Tragic news :(

And the one in 1975 when Ed Hillary's wife and daughter were killed en route to Lukla

One of my friends "crash landed" at Lukla in 2004, the landing carriage collapsed and the plane skidded to a halt, smoking engines... everybody bailed out quick but thankfully nobody was injured

I thought Louise and Belinda Hillary died just after take of from KTM, on the way to Phaphlu... Anyway, not in Lukla anywhere near the strip.

It is still amazing for me, after landing and taking off from there a few times, that this is the first inciedent involving fatalities at the actual airstrip. The skill of the pilots and their concentration must be tops, to be able to land there day in day out. Cold comfort for Yeti Air victims and their families, though.

[yakshaver]

Terrible news ,condolences go out to the families ,yes Escher it might be a rare occurence that this thing happened & it might only happen once but it is enough to cause grief & heartbreak for 18 families that have lost loved ones, i start a trek to EBC next month & i wont be flying now i dont care how long it takes to get to Lukla::(


I agree with the tone of the other comments: Driving in Nepal, especially bus riding, is a LOT more dangerous than flying to Lukla. In fact, given the number of fatalities per passangers (and given the high volume of passangers), the Lukla strip is a a lot safer than most other less challenging strips worldwide. Way better than bus records in Nepal anyway...

In fact the road may kill more tourists than altitude sickness I believe.

[webmaster]

Story about the two Australians on the plane

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/aussie-plane-crash-pair-loved-life/2008/10/09/1223145504978.html

[thesilvertops]

I read somewhere that trekkers are more likely to be injured going to the toilet at night than through any other cause. There are many reasons for this, unfamiliarity with their surroundings, steep stairs, darkness, ice, and numerous hazards on the ground.

[Lars]

In fact, given the number of fatalities per passengers (and given the high volume of passengers),
the Lukla strip is a a lot safer than most other less challenging strips worldwide.
Is this just a notion or do you have any figures to back up that claim?
Any particular airstrip you compare with?

I have read somewhere that Lukla is indeed ranked as the most challenging
strip anywhere to land at.

I too am impressed, and somewhat surprised, of the good record at Lukla. I
don't mean to suggest otherwise, but I also don't think one should claim
comparative records unless they do indeed exist.

[kiwigirl]

Is this just a notion or do you have any figures to back up that claim?
Any particular airstrip you compare with?

I have read somewhere that Lukla is indeed ranked as the most challenging
strip anywhere to land at.

I too am impressed, and somewhat surprised, of the good record at Lukla. I
don't mean to suggest otherwise, but I also don't think one should claim
comparative records unless they do indeed exist.

I heard the one in Papua New Guniea is worst . . . .

[kiwigirl]

It seems to have been reduced visibility. Just the minimum for landing at Lukla.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27078421/

When I spoke to the treking agent I used when I went there in May he told me that planes were not allowed to take of in cloudy weather. Even the Lonely Planet 'Trekking in the Himalaya" says trekkers have been held up for 2 weeks sometimes because planes refused to fly. my agent told me planes fly to Luka early, about 7am because it is clear skies normally at that time and after 10am there is a bit of wind coming up.
Mauybe the fog came down quickly at the Lukla end?

[Oli]

I've been stuck at the Kathmandu end of a 3 day wait to get to Lukla. One day no planes flew at all, another day one or two took off but turned back to KTM when the clouds pulled in before they could land. When there is a backlog of passengers and marginal conditions they might try and go for it, throw in a bit of bad luck and if things go wrong they might end in disaster. Accidents happen :(

One of my pilot friends has just been telling me about Courchevel airport, in the French Alps. It is not unlike Lukla, but (I think) shorter and steeper. (photo (http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/1221388/M/),video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uNFNFZq2BFY)) St.Maarten in the Caribbean has an airport that looks rather dangerous, big planes and a short runway (photo (http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/st-maarten.jpg),video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zAfQwDizpRo)) :eek:

[jules21]

I heard the one in Papua New Guniea is worst . . . .

the major airports in PNG are fine, however when trekking the kokoda, i noticed there was one on a hill (as in, on the hill) that was just a piece of grass.

[yakshaver]

Is this just a notion or do you have any figures to back up that claim?
Any particular airstrip you compare with?

I have read somewhere that Lukla is indeed ranked as the most challenging
strip anywhere to land at.

I too am impressed, and somewhat surprised, of the good record at Lukla. I
don't mean to suggest otherwise, but I also don't think one should claim
comparative records unless they do indeed exist.

There is this site with airport incidents, that Per and others have found and posted.

I did not have time to do a comparative study really... It is just a hunch, based on trawling through the data there. What I have found though, is the fact that this is, as I have already stated I think..., the first comercial flight with fatalities AT the Lukla airstrip itself. While there have been a number of incidents (belly landings, crash landings etc) none of them have, until this recent Yeti Air flight, been accompanied by deaths.

This was something that keept me from needing a nappy change every time I landed and departed from Lukla until now... Obviously that comfortable thought (that no fatalities have occured at the airstrip) will no longer be there for a lot of people now.

[Holy stRoller]

:( I got back from Kathmandu last Sunday. I was in the air circling near Lukla waiting for a break in the clouds on the day all this happened. We were the next plane waiting to land before the Yeti Airlines plane. If I had booked the ticket we would have been on that plane. As it was Raj my friend and guide booked the tickets and he booked with Sita. Raj had just bought his mate a cup of tea at the airport before we left. His mate died on the plane. What hit me the most is how normal everything was before the tragedy. People laughing and joking at the airport, sharing stories, making plans, talking about their upcoming trek etc... and then, a plane load just like us died. My condolences to family and friends.

But life is full of risk. If we stop doing what we do because of risk, life becomes monochrome. Get out there! Run the risk! None of us know when our turn is coming.

[Petrus]

I have been in the same situation once, the plane we were supposed to fly originally crashed, 7 dead, our plane was diverted to a nerby airfield, went to see the carnage. Then again, I have landed on an overgrown highway, grass 4 feet high, in the Amazon. In Iraq US military Chinook choppers dropped flares to divert possible incoming missiles every time we took off or landed near Baghdad, one Chinook took fire and fired back(3 gunners on doors with night vision goggles), I just try to take it like it comes, still the chances of getting into an accident is slight, even in Iraq, even less in Nepal. Just be at peace with yourself and the world. Life has its risks, or you are not living.

[Holy stRoller]

Attached files show a plane seen as we were circling Lukla. 9N-AFE ? Might have been
And the airport before we left

[yakshaver]

I just try to take it like it comes, still the chances of getting into an accident is slight, even in Iraq, even less in Nepal. Just be at peace with yourself and the world. Life has its risks, or you are not living.

Too right!

[yakshaver]

Attached files show a plane seen as we were circling Lukla. 9N-AFE ? Might have been
And the airport before we left

Thank you padre, this give us some perspective. On this particular unhappy incident, as well as life in general...

[kiwigirl]

QUOTE=Holy stRroller:
But life is full of risk. If we stop doing what we do because of risk, life becomes monochrome. Get out there! Run the risk! None of us know when our turn is coming.[/QUOTE]


not sure how to put this . . . . . but I said to my family if anything happens to me don't bring the body back. Would much prefer to be killed in the mountains than be stuck in a little square cemetery plot......



:( I got back from Kathmandu last Sunday. I was in the air circling near Lukla waiting for a break in the clouds on the day all this happened. We were the next plane waiting to land before the Yeti Airlines plane. If I had booked the ticket we would have been on that plane. As it was Raj my friend and guide booked the tickets and he booked with Sita. Raj had just bought his mate a cup of tea at the airport before we left. His mate died on the plane. What hit me the most is how normal everything was before the tragedy. People laughing and joking at the airport, sharing stories, making plans, talking about their upcoming trek etc... and then, a plane load just like us died. My condolences to family and friends.

But life is full of risk. If we stop doing what we do because of risk, life becomes monochrome. Get out there! Run the risk! None of us know when our turn is coming.

[Escher]

not sure how to put this . . . . . but I said to my family if anything happens to me don't bring the body back. Would much prefer to be killed in the mountains than be stuck in a little square cemetery plot......

There is a time and a place... And I don't think it is either for a comment such as this.

Perhaps it would be more respectful if this thread was left open to anyone who wanted to post some first hand information of the recent events as a couple of people on here have done, and not to express ones views of death. This thread ought to be about expressing condolences and reporting facts about the accident. While relatives will probably not read this forum, I feel it may be likely that there are guides and other Nepalis who have lost friends who do.

It seems many people are affected by this tragedy. My sincere condolences to them all.

[Lars]

There is a time and a place... And I don't think it is either for a comment such as this.

My sincere condolences to them all.
Honestly Escher! What is the point of those "condolences" to people you do
not know about the deaths of others you have never met?
"My thoughts go out the families bla bla". I cringe!

This web forum is for the exchange of experiences and views by foreign
trekkers to Nepal, rather than unsincere and hardly heartfelt formal niceties.
Politically correct maybe, but even at best nothing more than transparent
standard phrases. Cheaper than a Hallmark card.

I think Kiwigirl's post was quite in line with thoughts that may well come to
our minds when disasters like this happens. I, by the way, have told my
family the same thing.

[julia]

I disagree with you Lars, what is wrong in letting someone know you are thinking of them whether you know them or not, I have had a lot of tradegy in my life and the touching thoughts of people I did not know meant a lot to me, that a complete stranger bothers to make the effort, it isn't just for show.

How can you possibly say someone is being insincere by giving their condolances, I cant believe you think it better to just totally ignore them, and not let them know people are thinking of them in this sad time.

I agree with Eschers point, Kiwigirls comment was tactless in this thread.

It is a very emotive subject and this particular one should not be causing arguments. People have died for goodness sake, and whether you know them or not it is very sad.

[Escher]

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. And I think you are completely wrong. I think to say "but I said to my family if anything happens to me don't bring the body back. Would much prefer to be killed in the mountains than be stuck in a little square cemetery plot......" is extremely insensitive on a thread about an accident that killed 18 people a few weeks ago. I agree with the sentiment of what was said but I don't believe this thread is the place to say it, you obviously disagree.

I regularly post on a climbing forum and unfortunately there are several fatal accidents a year among people that post there. Then there are regular threads of condolence which get hijacked with insensitive comments that are read by family members. I've seen it happen a number of times and people have got very upset.

To assume that no-one concerned will ever read this thread is just that - an assumption. To post what some would consider to be an insensitive comment on this thread when it could have just as easily not been said or at least posted on a different thread is the problem. Perhaps no-one affected will ever read it - who knows.

I added the "hallmark card" stuff - as you call it - at the end of my post so as to not sound like I was just having a go at Kiwigirl. You are quite correct my condolences mean absolutely nothing and I wasn't toeing the PC line and trying to feel good about myself as you have inferred. To be honest I do not feel one way or the other about this, neither myself nor anyone I know was affected. But I do not feel that this thread is the place to say what I actually feel, I kept my views about that to myself as it would add absolutely nothing to what has been written and may have unintended consquences.

If you think that is being overly PC then so be it.

[RRainey]

You mean we all don't feel the same about death, our deaths, members of our family's deaths, and strangers deaths? Big surprise.

What one person may think as an insensitive comment may ring true to others. A truly insensitive comment would have been something like "those folks deserved to die they were stupid to fly there". Obviously that is not appropriate and in fact should even be deleted.

But I think when even strangers die on a flight we may have taken or will take soon naturally our thoughts come back to what if that happened to someone they were close to our even themselves?

So we each have our own personel thoughts, You may think her choice is strange, or you may not understand, but I find it very interesting.

For example I find open casket funerals to be Morbid and I find burial of bodies to be strange. So I may not attend that sort of ceremony. But I would not condem others for doing so.

[Escher]

OK. I'll try one more time. I have no issue with what was said. I have an issue with where and when.

A thread about attitude to risk in the mountains would indeed be interesting. So please feel free to start a separate one and then perhaps this thread can be left alone.

[kiwigirl]

I am really sorry Escher, I didnt mean to upset anyone. It is just because I am new that I never thought of starting another thread.

OK. I'll try one more time. I have no issue with what was said. I have an issue with where and when.

A thread about attitude to risk in the mountains would indeed be interesting. So please feel free to start a separate one and then perhaps this thread can be left alone.

[yakshaver]

RRainey I guess you're right, not all of us have the same reaction to death... wether it is someone elses or our own impending demise. After all life is a fatal STD for each and every one of the human race - and people cope with that thought, as well as the consequences of other's deaths, differently.

I also suspect that, like me, for some of us who've landed at Lukla a few times, the event is a lot more real than, say, some plane crash in Bangladesh, or something. Not for everyone of course.

It am no too surprised about kiwigirl's comments. Ultimately, the death of the people we relate to in some way (and I include for me the passangers on the fated Yeti flight in this category, for the reasons stated above) is referenced back to ourselves, consciously or not, and our own transitory state on God's earth.

As the great man wrote, bringing all this stuff to the surface:

For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' unworthy takes...
...But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?

Hence, we are perhaps more touched by the fate of the 18 on the unfortunate flight... And we might express this in different ways, which might seem to us as opposite, but express essentially the same deep stuff. Huh?

Be good to each other guys and gals.

[a1jbg]

I have just returned home from an Everest Base Camp trek in Nepal. We (an Intrepid Travel group) were being briefed in the gardens of the Kathmandu Guest House when the news came through of the "incident", directly from the Group Leader on the ground in Lukla at the time.
The meeting was adjourned for 30 mins to give us time to contact family and friends, to assure them we were OK if they had heard about it on the news.
To me, the real tragedy of the accident was that the crash was survivable. Our guide Chitra was the first on the scene when the plane crashed, and was trying to open the emergency door when the plane caught fire. He said he believed everyone was alive at that point. He said the reason the plane crashed is because the pilot tried to land in partial cloud and came in only 2-3 metres too low. Tragic.
An upsetting start to the trek and the flight to Lukla, especially for some of the ladies in the group, but once we had got going, the trek to EBC exceeded all expectations. The group was a great mix, the weather was great and the views were out of this world. I managed to drag my battered body and knees and ankles to the top of Kala Pattar and was rewarded with the most fantastic views of Everest, and down into Everest Base Camp.
Before and afterwards in Kathmandu and Thamel, and the now familiar (7th visit) sights, sounds and smells of the place, I absolutely love it.